Putin came to Syrias aid to stop that as well, the Kurds have been systematically slaughtered by the Russians there.
First Iāve heard of the Kurdish genocide in Syria. Youāll have to dig out a link and put it on one of the Syrian threads.
Without the Russians the Assad regime couldnāt have fought both wars, Russia was supplying arms to the Syrian army for the purpose of killing Kurds.
The new Kurdish homeland would stretch over 4 countries, Iran, Iraq. Syria and Turkey, theyāre going to give them nothing and keep them stateless and without hope, no voting rights either I believe.
Well itās a conundrum for your moral conflict then. Reading between the lines, that is Erdoganās red line. The price of Sweden and Finland getting the Turkish nod for NATO is the Kurds getting the heave-ho.
Messy business, these miliary blocs, arenāt they?
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Sure are but the Swede and Finns wonās sell out, now its been said and no missiles are being put there Putins isnāt arsed as heāll lose, also there are guarantees of both nations until they join.
It makes the NATO Putin reasoning all the more codshite then doesnāt it?
There are issues with organisations like NATO that require unanimous assent for decision making, so I wouldnāt treat it as an instant win. As the present hold-up with Turkey shows, along with the semi-regular bunfight over getting the EU budget approved, sometimes perceived strength can end up being a weakness.
Liberal democracies or autocrat nations? I know what Iād rather have.
Call me a cynic but I donāt think you have that choice. Do liberal democracies ban foreign media? What we have is two cheeks of the same arse in terms of voting. Thereās not a fag paperās worth of of difference between the two parties in their fundamental beliefs.
Our elections donāt need to be fixed for the establishmentās desired outcome to be achieved.
You only have to look at the treatment of Corbyn to know weāre not a liberal democracy. You canāt even point to supposed rights we have, such as freedom of speech, and say that we enjoy those. You can say the wrong thing on Twitter and lose your career.
Different means. Same ends.
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Ah the illiberal liberal, I agree with you there but again Iād rather have our system as broken as it is than theirs.
Thirty years ago, I think I would have agreed with you, with the knowledge I have now. Tbh, at seventeen I thought we were great then.
A lot of water has passed under the bridge since. The West can speak as much as it likes about its democratic values and civilising mission, but the people of Libya didnāt get a vote on their country getting bombed back to slave markets.
On another matter, do you think throwing the Kurds under the bus to get Finland and Sweden into NATO is justified? It occurred to me that they have very similar, and perhaps worse problems than Ukraine.
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The Kurds wonāt be thrown under a bus and Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Syria and Russia have a head start on that.
For argumentās sake (not the bad kind), what if that were the deal?
Throw the Kurds under the bus to get two new NATO members.
I donāt think itās an unreasonable ask given āterroristsā (meaning the PPK) were the first words out of his mouth.
Well, that didnāt take long.
https://amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/may/17/homes-for-ukraine-refugees-being-left-homeless-uk
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One mans terrorist is another mans freedoms fighter.
I think the Kurds are the ones whoāve been terrorised for years, also the Turks canāt talk about terrorism, they have the over a million of Armenians blood of their hands, they still deny it.
Blimey, and you accuse others of āWhataboutery!ā At least Iraq, Syria, Libya etc was recent history, your whataboutery goes back over 100 years.
So you would agree that the US and UK canāt talk about terrorism because they have the blood of millions on their hands?
I think youāll find Iāve said the Turkish have abused the Kurds also recently above.
No, millions protested against Iraq, it makes the UK Government of the time guilty, not the population.
Well if we live in a democracy thatās the peopleās fault, especially if they keep electing the same people.
If all theyāve got is the same shit from either cheek of the same arse, then itās not the peopleās fault, but we donāt have a democracy.
Thereās no shame in it. The US has a very similar set-up to us.
But I donāt think you can say that we live in a liberal democracy and say that itās all the fault of the government. The two just donāt track.
Oh I blame the voters who vote tory but what else is there, if they vote them in what can you do?
Thereās no-one else. Thatās the point. Even if they vote Labour they still get war and if the Labour party leader of the day doesnāt happen to want war they fuck him off sharpish.
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Like these guys?
Perhaps this should go on the Eurovision thread, but JWP signing up as an Azov Batallion Commander, probably belongs here.
Croatians also apparently not very keen on Finland/Sweden joining NATO.
Missed the fact that Croatia told Ben Wallace and the UK to Fuck off shortly before the war started. Quite funny though: