šŸ‡ŗšŸ‡¦ The War/Invasion in/of Ukraine

Fear.
Looking at BOTH sides for a moment, Russians are (maybe) venting their frustrations. Maybe they are demoralised and broken and taking their revenge WITHOUT orders from on high.
That is not a fact it is a MAYBE.
Maybe they have been ordered to do it to instill fear in the Citizens - weaken the resolve by reducing the Nation to a state of grieving women.
MAYBE

Maybe the ā€œotherā€ videos circulating are the Ukrainians looking to instill fear into an already demoralised force, weaken their resolve force them to rebel and retreat. (after all, feeding prisoners and containing them takes up scarce resources.
MAYBE

Maybe units of regular or even irregular troops are extracting revenge for the horros those Russians have unleashed on their homes
MAYBE

But the simple fact is - nothing can be done to stop it right now. So, it has to act as an influence. It has to be used to stop Germany, Hungary and others (yes even the UK) doing ANY business with Russia UNTIL they come to the negotiating table.

Charging Putin with War Crimes - oh wow. That’s well 'ard innit. It means NOTHING - if he never leaves Russia and retains his dynasty

It means a lot, being tainted doesn’t do a countries image any good and when this is all over the Russian public aren’t that soft to realise why their man is a war criminal and Zelensky is seen a hero. He won’t be bothered at the moment but long term its important.

It means nothing.

Right now Russia has the ā€œsocial standingā€ of North Korea. He can take them back to pure Communist days until he is usurped by Russians. Nothing anyone else says or does is relevant. He gives a shit about Ukraine, not what the UN think, he has shown time and again he doesn’t CARE, only his paid cronies cared, about getting more money.

Enough whatabouttery time to go after everyone who took Russian Money

One of the explanations I have read for the actions of the Russians is that one of the Russian armies anti-partisan modus operandi is one of collective punishment

Ie if they meet partisan resistance, they take reprisals out on the local populace with the intention that those partisan attacks stop.

It is something that they have done for decades going back to the Russian revolution though to Afghanistan

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You’ve changed your tune from a few weeks ago, a lot more pro action than previously. He won’t get Ukraine, he wanted it all but he may get eastern parts if Ukraine sues for peace but he’s lost the nation altogether and strengthened the West long term, in 20 years Russia will be at China’s and India beck and call.

Pro Action? Wtf does that mean?
What position am I supposed to have taken up now?

Your previous view was a more conciliatory one towards Russia or it appeared so to me, correct me if I’m wrong.

Mate I have FRIENDS who lived in a cellar for 6 months in Alleppo. I have never been more offended.

Equally knowing what he was ( I’m from Salisbury remember?) I have equal CONTEMPT for the crooks, bribe takers and morons who let this happen, especially that idiot Merkel

If the intent was to promote fear, don’t you think it would be the Russians, not the Ukrainians, posting these videos?

Do you think Putin will be disappointed if he achieves his stated war aims but fails to achieve your imagined ones?

Sorry for the offence, Merkel has some blame for national self interest (EU people) but Putin is the one who’s invaded and killed, your example is like blaming the French for Hitler, France was the reason he existed but France didn’t do the things Hitler did.
The blame lies solely with Putin and his circle of subordinates.

Who are the majority left in those ā€œbattle zonesā€?
The old folks who wouldn’t leave their homes. Like the Grandparents of many here and some I know
You think they have access to Telegram?

Serious point, WoM is how they worked in the past and it still carries a lot of weight.

Get on a plane, (after Easter) book me for a day, I’ll show you real atrocities.

Then we can drink beers and see the human impact of what is going on and still put the world to rights

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Sorry Pap I didn’t realise you had Putin’s ear?

Why would he lose approx 10%-15% of his invading force in trying to take Kyiv? For a laugh? A gesture?
His aims were a puppet Government and a slav slave state as they used to be under the Soviet era, he has quite obviously blown that as levels of resistance his shite armies have encountered are massively higher than his echo chamber of a war council told him.
Ukraine will now (rules will be bent) be allowed to join the EU.
Finland at the very least a lot closer but even could possibly join.
Sweden a lot closer but it won’t join but more troops in and around.
NATO right on Russias border as they quite obviously can’t be trusted on not invading.
Heightened permanent alert in the Baltics with even more weaponry.
Russia economy set back 50 years.

Yes its all gone swimmingly for you and Vlad Pap.

Blimey, you moan at me for having a pop at you, but it’s ok for you to have a pop at anyone who might offer alternative food for thought.

Priceless.

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Most analysts think he’s tying down forces so the operation in the East can succeed.

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Can you link them so they can say that was his master plan?
The best Ukrainian forces have been exactly where they were 6 weeks ago, in the east, he may well get the east (it’ll be so so costly and such a waste) but that was never his overall plan, you can’t seriously think he’d invade from the the North and Belarus fail and then say it was a diversion, they’ve been mauled north of Kyiv hence their scorched earth policy (a Soviet favourite) and killing of innocents on the way out retreating, that wasn’t a tactic but a fuck up, no Fox News Col Mcgregors can spin that crap.
If he wanted the east he would have invaded from friendly territory and with a far superior ground force Pap.
He wanted Kyiv and a puppet Government, he has no lost Ukraine and its Russian speakers outside of the east forever.

This thread is a fucking nightmare now - everyone is so entrenched in their views that it’s reminding me of the 1st World War (ā€œOver the topā€ ad infinitum.

There is huge hypocrisy. We’re being told we can’t believe anything the media is telling us as there are very few on the ground sources (and those are unreliable), yet we’re meant to believe the ground sources that are reporting positively for Russia? How’s that work. Either got to believe all or nothing.

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I’d reread that last sentence to check it for sanity.

Are you advocating a strategy for analysis or simply reminding people how irrationality works?

Thank fuck that’s not the way our court system works.

Now? It’s been in a death-spiral from day one.