Neither do you see the sort of rabid and rapid conversion into conspiracy theorists, except itās okay because even though we Brits as humans are above reproach and our governments would never do anything like that, Johnny Foreigner will, so you can believe that.
Thereās been no government sponsored āhouse a refugeeā scheme for any of these other people, and it seems like the more rabidly hawkish people want World War Three over a country that hasnāt even turned 35, has been killing Russian speaking citizens since the coup takeover in 2014. You could arge that Ukraine as constituted hasnāt even had its tenth birthday.
Absolute fucking banana republic with added US interference and Nazis. But people care about this, would put up a no fly zone for this, without having a fucking scooby of how this came about.
Iād despair, but Iām too busy laughing. And crying.
To answer your other points - I donāt think many on this site, and certainly who have read this thread, deny how this has come about - Iāve ebeen preaching it to people outside of this site.
However, and this is the problem you Putin-noshers seem to have - it doesnāt excuse the response.
More attempted though weak and incorrect equivalence.
Context is needed if youāre going to play that one, theyāre Russian backed separatists, puppets, Russia couldnāt give a crap about the rust belt. Youāre simply writing a pro Russian narrative ie the Ukrainians started it so the Russian will finish it, be honest.
No it doesnāt mean Putin gets a free pass. My view is that all war crimes should be investigated, or none at all. Picking and choosing who should be investigated for war crimes, based upon whether or not the perpetrators are considered to be on our side, and whether those on the receiving end look like us or not, is rank hypocrisy and double standards and should be faced up to and called out as such. The hypocrisy of the USA, announcing that they are gathering evidence of war crimes in Ukraine for Putinās prosecution at the International Court in The Hague is off the scale. The USA, undoubtedly guilty of numerous shocking war crimes in recent history, refuse to even recognize the International Court, and passed legislation which effectively threatened Holland that if any US citizen were taken there it would be considered a hostile act and would be treated as such. Staggering hypocrisy.
I realize that i am probably a lone voice in the wilderness on here at the moment calling these hypocrisies out, so be it.
I watched the England footballers warming up at Wembley last week, all taking their track suit tops off to unveil T shirts reading, āI Stand With Ukraineā. Admirable sentiments of course, but if any of them unveiled a T shirt reading,āI Stand With Palestineā, or Yemen there would be uproar from the authorities, telling us all that this is a political statement and is banned. Celtic had the book thrown at them because a few of their supporters were waving Palestinian flags! Hypocrisy and double standards which ever way you cut it.
The new narrative now is that armed resistance by the people against illegal occupying forces is a brave and noble thing, which it undoubtedly is. But has anybody told the Palestinians this? They are not terrorists anymore? Has anybody told Israel?
Heinous war crimes are committed in every conflict, no matter where in the world it is and by all sides, itās what some military personnel do when they are let loose with weapons and the blood lust is up. In an ideal world they should all be investigated and prosecuted without fear or favour. Trying to pretend that those committed by our side are of no relevance and āwhatabouteryā, with more than a whiff of racism towards the victims is just plain wrong, the sheer injustice of it is sickening in my view. Women and children being slaughtered in their beds in the middle of the night by precision guided missiles are all equal victims, regardless of whether they are brown skinned Arabs or white skinned westerners who look like us.Prosecute all of the perpetrators or none at all, anything less is hypocritical and morally bankrupt.
Watching our government trumpeting on the world stage that we are leading the world in offering sanctuary to Ukranian refugees, whilst at the same time we have the PM and Home Secretary standing up in parliament tying themselves in knots to find ways of putting obstacles in the path of said refugees coming here, making it as difficult as possible to arrive here legally is nauseating in the extreme.Just wait a few months down the line, watch the usual morally bankrupt hypocrites change their tune about the āplucky little Ukraniansā when they start coming across the channel in rubber dinghies.
To reiterate, yes, I do believe that Russia should be prosecuted for war crimes if they have been committed, as should all perpetrators no matter who they are, regardless of any political embarrassment this may cause to their new world order. No amount of sweeping under the carpet and deflection, crying āwhatabouteryā in the hope it will just go away changes this basic moral argument.
I still donāt get how it could be homophobic or xenophobic. Saying that one man wants to such another manās cock because they love him is not homophobic, is it? Itās an insult to the person (possibly) but its not homophobic.
I think the biggest problem here is that you are talking to like-minded people in relation to war crimes. I donāt think youāll find anyone on here that supports the US and UK hierarchy hypocrisy, but your arguments on here are, in my opinion, better for down the pub.
We donāt deny the world is a fucked up place. But we also arenāt trying to denigrate what is happening in Ukraine because the US/UK did it as well.
Yemen is an incredibly complex situation and simply not diluted down to an easy good or bad, there are war crimes there, yes, on both sides (there in fact 3 sides and possible 4 if you include Iran), we can open up a thread and discuss that that there.
Palestine again is an intractable and impossible situation for all involved, again we can discuss that on a separate thread.
Syria is about sectarianism and a lack of a cohesive nation state and the people their shrinking into their tribal, religious and social backgrounds, its always been a split nation hence only a dictator can rule, much for the same for all the middle east.
In fact we could have specific war threads, it would help.
Iāve said and from this I maintain people dislike the state more than they like the Palestinians, Houtiās and Syrians.
Maybe we could discuss them but on relevant threads?