If youâre going to pretend to debate, at least answer a simple question.
What has given the illegal Ukrainian government the right to shell Donbass for eight years?
And letâs not pretend that the elections wash away the coup. They donât. Everything built on it since is shit, including a constitutional requirement to join NATO and the EU. Fancy that. Almost as if someone wrote it for them.
This is quite interesting.
The situation with aircraft. A lot of them are leased. A couple of those leased to Russian airlines have already been repossessed when they landed abroad.
However, apart from those, all other Russian-leased planes are in Russia. They may not be coming back.
Pap, Iâm not pretending, the Ukrainians had a chance to put a Russian puppet back in and they didnât, you think putting the original one back in would work? Youâre crazy.
Pap itâs a civil war, what do you expect them to do? Tickle them? Theyâre bombing Russian insurgents.
Let the people of Ukraine decide Ukraines future, Putin and Russia are dead to the modern world.
It was a coup. After that coup, and some rather nationalist legislation banning Russian as a second language, the Russian speaking regions decided they didnât fancy being a part of this Ukraine.
Their reward was to have the Ukrainian forces arrayed against them and to be in a state of war for eight years. It was all needless too. There had already been a bloody coup. Why antagonise the Russian speaking population? Force them to change their names from Vladimir to Wladimir?
From the outset, the Maidan-inspired governments have been virulently anti-Russian. I donât blame people in the Russian speaking areas for wanting out in that context.
The disappointing thing is that they donât seem to be a part of this story. Their suffering is unacknowledged and despite several Western outlets reporting extensively on the Nazi influence in the post 2014 setup, to say so now is a conspiracy theory.
Interesting article
If theyâre pro Russian living in another land with no affiliation for it Pap you have to ask why are they there, and why did they move there? You can try and take the narrative about the poor down trodden ethnic Russians of course, theyâve been used by Putin as a wedge to get into Ukraine, oldest trick in the book.
The answer isnât hard to come by.
The borders of internationally recognised Ukraine include people that are not ethnic Ukrainian.
Ukrainian 77.8%, Russian 17.3%, Belarusian 0.6%, Moldovan 0.5%, Crimean Tatar 0.5%, Bulgarian 0.4%, Hungarian 0.3%, Romanian 0.3%, Polish 0.3%, Jewish 0.2%, other 1.8%
Itâs what happens when you draw lines on a map to make a Soviet oblast or indepenent country.
You canât blame the Ukrainians for being subjugated.
Dear Baznotbot
Try reading European history to answer your own dumb question
Start half way through the story in 1579
Is anyone doing that?
I was simply explaining how it was that the recognised borders of Ukraine contain other ethnicities. There were ethnic Ukrainians living outside of Ukraine just over the border before all this kicked off.
I know my history and I know also what a sovereign nation is, there can be reasons but there can be no excuses for invasion.
What border? And did Ukraine agitate and eventually invade to rescue them? Could we invade Southern Spain and annex it? That appears to be your line of argument.
The NATO that are already on his doorstep present themselves as a relatively compact and easily defendable border. Ukraine, presents a huge border granting easy access to the flat, otherwise indefendable east European plain and the strategically vital oil and gas pipeline routes from the Caspian Sea.
And you say you know your historyâŠ? âHistoryâ is full of invasions.
Hell, even the UK wouldnât be what it is today if they didnât happen or donât âconquestsâ count or were the Roman or Norman conquests âgoodâ reasons?
So you want Ukraine to be the buffer zone fall guy its been for centuries for invasion? Let the Ukrainians decide.
Yes thanks for that, I donât know what that was but thanks anyway.
No charge 
So what happens if the Russian speaking Ukrainians decide they want to be part of Russia?
So the Ukrainian president reckons Kyiv will only capitulate if it is razed to the ground.
It does beg some questions.
First of all, why does he believe this is a possibility? I thought the Ukrainian forces were smashing it.
Second, remind you of anything in particular?