To answer your other points - I donât think many on this site, and certainly who have read this thread, deny how this has come about - Iâve ebeen preaching it to people outside of this site.
However, and this is the problem you Putin-noshers seem to have - it doesnât excuse the response.
Cool - and how have I proved your point? I see other things as war crimes too, never denied that (including Ukraine bombing the shit out of Donbass)
Well, thatâs a serious argument.
Homophobic and xenophobic.
Two for the price of one.
How? Explain please?
More attempted though weak and incorrect equivalence.
Context is needed if youâre going to play that one, theyâre Russian backed separatists, puppets, Russia couldnât give a crap about the rust belt. Youâre simply writing a pro Russian narrative ie the Ukrainians started it so the Russian will finish it, be honest.
Who commented on this thread? Just having a laugh I supposeâŠ
Can you explain exactly what a âPutin-nosherâ is first and why that is a bad thing?
My point is you werenât clutching your pearls then.
No it doesnât mean Putin gets a free pass. My view is that all war crimes should be investigated, or none at all. Picking and choosing who should be investigated for war crimes, based upon whether or not the perpetrators are considered to be on our side, and whether those on the receiving end look like us or not, is rank hypocrisy and double standards and should be faced up to and called out as such. The hypocrisy of the USA, announcing that they are gathering evidence of war crimes in Ukraine for Putinâs prosecution at the International Court in The Hague is off the scale. The USA, undoubtedly guilty of numerous shocking war crimes in recent history, refuse to even recognize the International Court, and passed legislation which effectively threatened Holland that if any US citizen were taken there it would be considered a hostile act and would be treated as such. Staggering hypocrisy.
I realize that i am probably a lone voice in the wilderness on here at the moment calling these hypocrisies out, so be it.
I watched the England footballers warming up at Wembley last week, all taking their track suit tops off to unveil T shirts reading, âI Stand With Ukraineâ. Admirable sentiments of course, but if any of them unveiled a T shirt reading,âI Stand With Palestineâ, or Yemen there would be uproar from the authorities, telling us all that this is a political statement and is banned. Celtic had the book thrown at them because a few of their supporters were waving Palestinian flags! Hypocrisy and double standards which ever way you cut it.
The new narrative now is that armed resistance by the people against illegal occupying forces is a brave and noble thing, which it undoubtedly is. But has anybody told the Palestinians this? They are not terrorists anymore? Has anybody told Israel?
Heinous war crimes are committed in every conflict, no matter where in the world it is and by all sides, itâs what some military personnel do when they are let loose with weapons and the blood lust is up. In an ideal world they should all be investigated and prosecuted without fear or favour. Trying to pretend that those committed by our side are of no relevance and âwhatabouteryâ, with more than a whiff of racism towards the victims is just plain wrong, the sheer injustice of it is sickening in my view. Women and children being slaughtered in their beds in the middle of the night by precision guided missiles are all equal victims, regardless of whether they are brown skinned Arabs or white skinned westerners who look like us.Prosecute all of the perpetrators or none at all, anything less is hypocritical and morally bankrupt.
Watching our government trumpeting on the world stage that we are leading the world in offering sanctuary to Ukranian refugees, whilst at the same time we have the PM and Home Secretary standing up in parliament tying themselves in knots to find ways of putting obstacles in the path of said refugees coming here, making it as difficult as possible to arrive here legally is nauseating in the extreme.Just wait a few months down the line, watch the usual morally bankrupt hypocrites change their tune about the âplucky little Ukraniansâ when they start coming across the channel in rubber dinghies.
To reiterate, yes, I do believe that Russia should be prosecuted for war crimes if they have been committed, as should all perpetrators no matter who they are, regardless of any political embarrassment this may cause to their new world order. No amount of sweeping under the carpet and deflection, crying âwhatabouteryâ in the hope it will just go away changes this basic moral argument.
Someone who wants to make love to Putin. And where did I say it was a bad thing? It is a viewpoint.
Now, can you explain why what I wrote was homophobic and xenophobic?
I wasnât aware of it. Doesnât mean that I donât regard it as a war crime.
If you donât think itâs a bad think to give Vladmir Putin a nosh, I withdraw my objection.
I still donât get how it could be homophobic or xenophobic. Saying that one man wants to such another manâs cock because they love him is not homophobic, is it? Itâs an insult to the person (possibly) but its not homophobic.
Youâre not.
I think the biggest problem here is that you are talking to like-minded people in relation to war crimes. I donât think youâll find anyone on here that supports the US and UK hierarchy hypocrisy, but your arguments on here are, in my opinion, better for down the pub.
We donât deny the world is a fucked up place. But we also arenât trying to denigrate what is happening in Ukraine because the US/UK did it as well.
Yemen is an incredibly complex situation and simply not diluted down to an easy good or bad, there are war crimes there, yes, on both sides (there in fact 3 sides and possible 4 if you include Iran), we can open up a thread and discuss that that there.
Palestine again is an intractable and impossible situation for all involved, again we can discuss that on a separate thread.
Syria is about sectarianism and a lack of a cohesive nation state and the people their shrinking into their tribal, religious and social backgrounds, its always been a split nation hence only a dictator can rule, much for the same for all the middle east.
In fact we could have specific war threads, it would help.
Iâve said and from this I maintain people dislike the state more than they like the Palestinians, Houtiâs and Syrians.
Maybe we could discuss them but on relevant threads?
Whereas Ukraine is really simple isnât it?
Putin is Hitler and heâs looking to roll across Europe. According to you.
As soon as we mention the appalling acts of violence committed by the invading forces of Russia you can guarantee a swipe at the west will follow in a response, its ignorant, misplaced and wrong.
Donât dilute and divert this, the acts allegedly committed here are unseen in many peoples lifetime, the amounts of deaths and the rapidity of them is unseen in generations.
He is acting like Hitler, only a fool would deny that.
Mass graves, civilians killed hands tied behind their backs, raping, looting, staged events to propel an invasion.
He could also be likened to Stalin, he murdered more Soviets than their war effort did in repelling the Nazis, that part of history isnât popular though by them, its a reality though.
I am not denigrating what is happening in Ukraine, it is shocking and a tragedy for the people of Ukraine. But these events didnât just happen in a vacuum, the narrative that Putin woke up one morning and decided to launch an invasion because he is evil, mad and the new Hitler is simplistic and naive. Trying to put some context on it doesnât mean you automatically want to suck Putinâs cock, that is unworthy of you.
You state that nobody on here supports US and UK hypocrisy, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. Many are calling for Putin to be prosecuted for war crimes, quite rightly, it is undoubtedly a just cause, but could you point me to any posts from them over the years where they call for US/UK politicians to be prosecuted for the horrific war crimes that have been committed in our name? I would be interested to read them.