I forgot you rate him ha ha!
Barry you keep trolling with this and because boxing is subjective and until a fight happens there is not much either of us can do to change the otherâs opinion. On one hand, I have ring magazine giving him fighter of the year award and him holding the lineal heavyweight belt. On the other, I have an unemployed scouser telling me he is shit. Like Mrs Klitshko on her wedding night, I am torn.
I can only go off the first-hand experience. David Allen has trained at Miguelâs gym (where I was previously a member) and unlike me or you, he has been in the ring with Joshua, Klitschko, Ortiz, both Furyâs, White and many more. He says that Tyson is by far the best he has ever fought against. Styles make fights of course and anyone can make the other look stupid with a lucky punch or injury. However, on this, I am taking Davidâs opinion above yours. All the relentless trolling from you in the world will not change that.
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I still donât rate him, not above the fighters mentioned and neither do many. You rate him over Joshua? The Klitschkoâs?
So we are still going on? Yes, I rate him above Vlad as he beat Vlad. You can say Vlad didnât throw any punches but I see that like when teams used to have bad games against Pochâs Saints rather than Saints having good games and making them look poor. I have not idea if he will come back good or shot but on his day he was not only massive, he could box and move as well.
Not sure about Joshua as he can punch and has rapidly improved over the past few years. He has also gained about 15-20kg in muscle while not being part of Vada testing. He still doesnât move his head much and has only had one decent fight which was at European/low world level. The jury is still out on him.
Wilder is a poor, poor boxer who has a massive punch. I donât think that would be anywhere near enough against a prime Tyson Fury who would not give him a chance to punch.
I have played along and given you fair answers. I am not sure if you are trolling with your questions but if you ask more without giving your thoughts, I wonât be answering.
Come on Tokeâs just because a boxer of average at best (I acutally like watching Allenâs fights as theyâre entertaining) ability says something that well something Fury would say when heâs coked up it doesnât make it anyone authoritive does it? It a cliam and a half that, donât you think?
I can only take what I have seen and what David has told me over your opinion. You are welcome to it though. It is getting a bit my dad is harder than your dad. It is clear you like Wilder but from what I have seen, apart from his big punch, he is a terrible âboxerâ. I rated Fury before he reached the top and possibly his peak. I used to rate Billy Joe as well but gypsies seem to be a bit like Brazilan footballers and have a short shelf life once they reach the top.
No I donât rate Wilder at all, he is an awful lot of a better boxer than Fury though, the division is very weak apart from Joshua, there is no one, Povetkin? Parker?
Povetkin is 37 and has been on drugs for a while. If sparing stories are to be believed, since coming off the drugs his stamina and the level of power he has carried through rounds in the past, has dropped significantly.
Parker is not bad but hasnât looked great recently either. I even think barring poor judging, Hughie has a better than average chance against him.
In some ways the division is poor, in others (due to size and strength), it is the best it has ever been. Marciano for example would probably only be a light heaveywight these days. There is no knowing how the legends of the past would fair against the huge freaks of today. I get your point though.
In my opinion Oleksander Usyk beats most in the division when he moves up.
Moving up says it all, the Americans donât appear to take it seriously much to the detriment of the division, Fury wouldnât have got a look in 20/30/40 years ago and neither would many of them bar Joshua, an example Iâll give is Frank Bruno look who he had around him and he was ridiculed, heâd clean up nowadays, its a terrible division, the cruiserweight is crap pretty much as well, you have to go to Ward further down to get to absolute genuine quality.
Sorry Barry, I tried to politely play along but you are way off there. I canât think of many better divisions out there than the cruiser weight division.
Firstly it has always been a revolving door with fighters looking to win a belt and then move up for the big money at heavy weight. Were you moaning about he state of the heavyweight division when Evander Hollyfield or James Toney moved up?
Can you name many other divisions with the talents of Oleksandr Usyk, Murat Gassiev, Krzysztof Glowacki or Mairis Briedis? Just becuase they are not shown by skysports on a weekly basis as they focus on domestic fights, doesnât mean the division isnât fantastic.
Finally, Bruno? FFS Barry, please move back to a thread on the EU or Labour or UKIP. It is starting to hurt. Know what I mean Barry?
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dvoted for not doing a know what i mean, barry type joke
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No idea what you are talking about bear. It is clearly there and has definitely been there the whole time.
Some good fighter you mention but Usyk is 30 and who has he fought? Gassiev? Seems good on record but I havenât seen him not going to lie, Glowacki? Ok, Breidia, who has he fought? Am I missing something here?
Your hurt is you rate Fury. Maybe I have highers standards than you, youâll be saying Audley Harrison was a standard soonâŠ
Oh and light Heavywieght and Middleweight,welterweight? You think cruiserweight is better than them?
I canât win Barry, if you are not impressed by 2 world championships, 2 European championships, Oympic gold, beating undefeated GĆowacki to win a world strap after just a few pro-fights, he doesnât have much hope does he?
Light heavy, not much outside of the top two, same with Middle, Welter is fairly good at the moment but Khan keeps getting big fights which says a bit about the strength in depth there. Cruiser is up there with the best.
Iâd just like to say that, although Iâve no idea who any of these people are and have no particular interest in boxing, Iâm actually rather enjoying this thread. Keep it up boys, itâs a much better tit-for-tat exchange than the politics threads!
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Ditto. Iâm pretty sure theyâre making half these names up, but tokyos efforts (Oleksandr Usyk, Murat Gassiev, Krzysztof Glowacki, Mairis Briedis ffs) seem more creative, so Iâm giving him the Win, and saying he knows more bout Boxing than Barry.
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Iâm surprised neither of them has mentioned the great up and coming cruiserweight from Guernsey (with Romany heritage), Soryasis Binswanger.
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Barry chose to slate a division which is dominated by Eastern Europeans and therefore rarely features on Skysports as they prefer a domestic level grudge match between someone from Liverpool and someone from Manchester if at all possible. So far he can some back with Audley Harrison and Frank Bruno. I think I was one Ukrainian prospect away from Barry bring Marvis Rilley out of retirement. He speaks a lot but I think most can see that he doesnât really know.