Some good points SoS (not sure private school kids struggle at University - would like to see some stats on that) but in response to your last paragraph, if you have the means, why wouldn’t you?
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His eldest brother did the same course a few years earlier. There were strong rumours that Bret’s academic success was founded on his bro’s old coursework.
Their parents have to be fucking gutted. Paying money each year to see both their male children end up in a Mickey Mouse Educational Institution, and for the second one to fuck it up.
btw, of the three people that got firsts at our non red brick university, two were from the state school system. Not sure about the other mush, but his first name was Fabrice, so probably not.
EDIT : Fabrice went to a state grammar.
Down bvoted becaiuse you obviously did either not bother to read my comments re certain roles or chose to ignore them… Do you think Cameron’s pals in politics is representative of the vast majority of industry and buisness? Really? how much time have you spend recruiting graduates into major corporations?
The fact that there is still an imbalance in some business is not because of cronyism, but that certain schools provide more specific tutoring for certain university entrance - and thus certain courses that is they provide that opportunity. Now I happen to believe that the opportunity should be available to all - but it is saddly not.
PS. before anyone suggests it, where i works we recruit science graduates, MScs in Helth economics or Business graduates… not your typical PPE from Oxbridge…
I hope that that article you quoted wasn’t this based on this
I don’t need a lecture on post graduate recruitment, @areloa-grandee - I’ve done it myself, and have been the technical authority on whether they got in or not. We never really asked about university background that much. I was always more interested in their present levels of competence and enthusiasm.
Downvote as much as you like my chum, but don’t try to play the “I’ve recruited graduates for big corporates” shite with me. I’ve recruited graduates for small companies, and that’s much harder. Many of the apparent superstars are already gone, snaffled up by the big firms. A smaller pool of talent, and an absolute need to get it right. There’s no hiding in a small business. People can do fuck all for years in a corporation as long as they play the game.
Don’t think so.
Dr Vidal Rodeiro, from Cambridge Assessment, the department of the University of Cambridge which carried out the research, said: “In both Russell and non-Russell Group universities, students from independent schools were less likely to achieve either a first class degree or at least an upper second class degree than students from comprehensive schools with similar prior attainment."
And from your article.
A spokeswoman for HEFCE said: “We made a transposition error in our latest report on degree outcomes which we’ve corrected on our website and in social media. “ However, she added that the error did not affect their main conclusion that “for all but those with the very highest A-level grades, state school graduates tend to have higher degree outcomes than independent school graduates with the same prior educational attainment”.
So, if you want your children to have the best chance of a first send them to a state school, but average is more attainable from fee paying schools.
I wouldn’t for the simple reason that i don’t agree with it. Others do and that’s fine, but for me it will always be people trying to give their kids an unfair advantage. Just my view, i ask no one to share it.
I’m more concerned that Barry hasn’t denied that his kids are going private. That would destroy all his supposed beliefs of a fair and equal society. Say it ain’t so Barry.
Just my two penneth…
…I was educated at an independent school from 11-16 (council estate kid - check me, Pap - got in on the now abolished Assisted Places Scheme), did A levels at a state sixth form, went to a Russell Group Uni…have taught in the state system (at schools of varying quality) for the last 10 years. In the last two years I’ve been shortlisted for positions (and eventually accepted one) at a number of high profile independent schools*…so given that some of the people contributing to this thread have never stepped inside an independent school of any type…there are a fuckload of incorrect assumptions being made on this thread by posters with an axe to grind…which comes as no surprise.
*some of which live up to the stereotype (an invitation to interview in the Gothic Library immediately went in the bin) but many of which don’t.
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Seems like your grievance should be with a system that’s broken and the governments (primarily Tory) that have systematically undermined it. I’m not convinced it’s the fault of those people who are fortunate enough to have sufficient funds to circumvent the state system. There is undoubtedly a group of people who would send their kids elsewhere even if the state system were flawless - my experience is that the majority of people who send their kids independent are busting a gut to do so and do so with a heavy heart.
Edit: just as an aside - I was shown round the school I’m joining by two 6th form students from…Russia and China…that’s where a lot of independent school funding is coming from these days.
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No axe to grind. Though pushed to do it, I swerved applying for KES because I’d been there with my Middle School and didn’t like the vibe. Plus I’d finally looked up from my computer screens and discovered girls. There weren’t any at King Edwards.
As you know, I’m frequently back in go Southampton. Some of the funniest conversations we have concern our school experiences. I went to the same schools as my aunties and uncles, as well as a couple of my nieces.
My view is that the value of GCSEs and A Levels in and of themselves are no longer of great value. They’re stepping stones. I fucked about a lot in secondary school. I had a lot of other stuff going on, including a social life that was detrimental to my grades. They still managed to get me over the line with ten GCSEs at A-C grade.
Looking back, I now consider that the least important part of my state school education. The most important bit of it was all the people I got to meet. Most of my longest lasting friendships stem from there.
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This may come as a bit of a shock, but you were allowed to make friends at independent schools and you even get to keep them when you leave. Not only that, but you are allowed to keep the ones that you made in the state primary school as well.
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It doesn’t come as a shock at all. Bit of a sausage factory in most cases though, eh?
And for clarity, I don’t mean to imply any homophobia. We went to school with friends that were mums before they hit 20. Might give one a different perspective on the issue of say, single mothers.
FYI KES is co-ed as is most independents these days, simple economics have forced them to stop excluding 50% of the paying public.
That as may be, but as @thecholulakid points out, they’re less likely to have kids from poorer backgrounds attending. I’m sure that there are probably a few scholarships out there, but nothing like on the scale of assisted places.
I never agreed with the principle of that scheme anyway, neither do I agree with the principle of private education in general. There are precious few opportunities for us to build comprehensive bonds in this country. In the last 30 years, we’ve lost most of our pubs and a lot of our community. Comprehensive state schools are where I think that should happen.
Good post, i just don’t believe they have any place in a civilised society. I don’t blame an individual for wanting to help their kids, but a lot of the problems with funding might not be so bad if all parents had to deal with the state system. I’d rather have those parents(intelligent people that would be very vocal) working together to force proper funding and that’s only going to happen when they realise they can’t buy their way out of the problem. No one fights when it doesn’t affect them, there’s no need.
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FFS… you do it without even noticing - not sure whether its on purppose for a wind up, but you seem oblivious to the actual point being made and simply select words at random to support your counter… without bothering to address the points actually being made…
The post had fuck all to do with lecturing anyone on recruitment, and I am sure there are a load of posters on here who have experience with it… that is not the fucking point - I am just surprised that you seem comfortable demonstrating your failure to understand… so let me be as patronizing as possible (something you may recognise) - the recruitment post as was NOT provide anyone with insight on the process, but as simple EXAMPLE to counter the claim that cronyism still dominates… in all the companies I have worked in it does not…and we get plenety of applications from thosee that have been to independent schools…
As with the previous post where you simply ignored my point about politicians and then used Cameron as an example of cronyism this is another 
moment.
I dont expect you to give a fuck about my opinion. But if you are going to respond and provide a counter, at least do fellow posters the courtesy of actually reading the post before posting your response… otherwise it just makes you look like an arrogant tosser - are you sure you never went to an independent school?
… I rest my case - a total prejudiced remark if ever there was one - just be honest about your reverse snobbery and be done with it. You give yourself away with that comment in effect suggesting that its impossible to be compassionate and understanding unless you go to a state school where the kids experience a load of crap in their lives… well wake up, kids experiencing crap in their lives is not exclusive to those going to state schopols… and compassion and understanding tend to be traits that are taught by parents. You need to remember, that those single mothers who have challenges and need support, where placed in that position by dicks who fucked off after their fun… dicks who probably went to the same school… but hey, how dare anyone criticise their behaviour…
Lordy, @areloa-grandee . If that’s you resting your case I think I might prefer Lt George from Blackadder Goes Forth represent me.
Throughout this discussion, you’ve been on the back foot, largely because it’s difficult to separate the sentiment from the self interest.
And for the record, I’m not suggesting that there’s a lack of compassion, more a lack of nous, ably demonstrated by your wild guesses and obvious lack of experience in mixed school dating rituals.
A good person fights when they have nothing to gain, I try to and I try to be a good person.
If the schools are shit in my area (they aren’t) what do you propose a parent wanting the best for their child do?
Its easy to be holier than thou but what would you do? Its the systems fault and the fault of Governments the mainstream is bad in some parts.
I don’t blame people for wanting the best for their kids, mp’s however no, not a chance they make the system.
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Oh dear… the old ‘lets stick two pencils up your nose and fingers in ears, underpants on head, head in sand defence’ - ‘pretend the other person is on the’backfoot’ - you mistake backfoot for being in a minority - which is not surprizing given that there are so many myths and cliches surounding this topic (many spouted by yourself in the delusion that they provide a robust defence of your prejudices) of the old school left… as for differentiating sentiment from self interest… I would suggest that investigating what the local schools can provide and seeking out those that would provide best for your children is exactly what parents should do… the fact that not all can afford it is a separeate issue - and if you even bothered to read and actually ‘listen’ you woudlld know where my feelings on that issue lie… And therin lies the problem with your argument - you deliberately try and pretend its a simple single question and its all wrong and so fuck anyone who has money, they should pay more… infantile student politics playing at being solialists… I can see you on campus selling Socialist Worker,shouting very loudly…
As for your ‘nous’/ mixed school dating comment - barking up the proverbial wrong tree - ably demonstrated by your despeartion to try and be funny- stick to fixing IT problems 'cos your jokes are up there with Mannings…
…