Haha - keep it coming - your false and wrong assumptions are quite funny… as are your attempts to tar an etire educational choice with the same brush… but believe what you like - I went to an ordinary state school and achieved … despite its failings… whilst all around me bright kids gave up preferring popularity to sticking out as academically bright… so I feel quite comfortable to be able to judge both sides of the coin… the difference is I can see pros and cons in BOTH systems, and thorughout this debate have looked to make judgements on the the impact of resouces on opportunity… sadly as always happens in this debate its turned in to some psuedo class war bollocks… A classic example is the accustaion of ‘cronyism’ which is a lot less wide spread than some appear to think… may help a bit in politics but no longer in the world of work. I work in a global healthcare consultancy… and recruitmnet is centred on certain universities because of the courses they offer, not from which schools their students come from… makes fuck all difference where you went. However, on balance the applicatnts are around 50:50 form both and cohort intake is typically representative of that… but these are the best kids from Comps…
I am not ‘touhy’, I am just happy to defend a choice and try and get rid of a fucking huge number of popular myths maintained by those who disagree with the concept in principle. Disagreeing in principle is fine, but you can do that without perpetuating falsehoods based on little or no first hand experience. You and pap can deny it all you like, but your opinions on this matter are biassed based on political rhetoric, irrespective of the the pros and cons of systems that have the SAME objectives, but with different levels of resources available. Constantly trying to ruin any sensible debate by making it a ‘class issue’ is as pathetic as it is laughable…
There you go again… Motivation is down to parents and teachers - how kids are encouraged… not the type of school…BUT its fricken hard for all teachers to be motivated when trying to get a class of 30+ of varying abilty to settle down in a crappy 70s school building… The environment, resouces and abilty to provide a broader range of subjects and extra curricular activities makes it easier to motivate kids - that does not mean if parents dont give a shit their offspring will be any better off in an independent school than in a state one, but that the environment can help kids realise potentential if appropriately supported… both systems will pump out cunts if parents dont give a shit. BUt one system can pump out cunts simply because they have lost teheir way within a system that is under resourced, or where teachers simply dont have the time to spend supporting all kids as they would wish… that is the very simple difference.
I mentioned the Brexit thread because in that, you were saying that you were gutted about leaving the EU because of the apparent symbolism of a bunch of nations working together, yet at the same time decide to send your kids down an academic track that will set them apart, for better or worse, from much of the rest of society in some of the most important years of their lives.
I am glad that so many posh families sent their kids to my rather rough school, just as I’m glad we had so many Asian kids. We had every type of kid, from those who lived in Chilworth mansions to those who lived in near slum accommodation down in the area, It provided us all with perspectives that you’re just not going to get anywhere else.
I have shown that the myth you tried to maintain was indeed a myth, whilst ignoring your condescending attitude, but you come back with the same bollocks(I like this term. Thanks). You are now saying I am lying about cronyism. Prove it or apologise. It’s rife and if you don’t know that, I suggest you get out in the real world a bit more.
I know what kind of school you went to. You stated it earlier(thing called memory served me well. Try it some time).
Everything else is your opinion, so using your own term, bollocks. If only you had taken note when i started with the word personally (as in, just my opinion, not definitive fact).
P. S I have family all through the buy your kids future. From cheap shit £10-£15k schools all the way to holy grail of Eaton. So fucking what, do i now know about it than you?
I do understand the temptation as a parent, but whatever way it’s argued, you’re just trying to buy your childrens future for them. That’s wrong whatever way it’s dressed.
Right now I have absolutely no idea what point you are trying to make - you are babbling like Barry. I went to a state school - not sure what you are trying to remember so please enlighten me… You have shown nothing - you have cited one news paper article - nothing more. I am not arguing against the premise, then again I also don’t fall into the trap of only relying on one source… I have not caused anyone of lying so stop being such a tart. I merely illustrates through a real life example that cronyism is now more a myth… If you think your school will get you a job you are sadly naive… As for your last sentence…well I guess it is Friday night…
‘Buy your children’s future’ - so paying £9000 per year for a university place is fine… Surly more likely to buy your future, but paying for school is not?
Its a sad fucking lazy argument driven by an innate prejudice… You know that as well … Seriously lazy and without any value.
‘Must try harder’ a does that ring a bell?
(and yes I am being a patronising cunt because you are arguing in such a lazy and trolling fashion)
How much is your tax Mr Piss and why the low birth rate?
Its a valid question but It’s harder to answer than you might think especially in a way that is meaningful for the argument. Progressive tax rates makes giving a straight answer very difficult. However I think in general it’s viewed that tax rates here are quite a bit higher than in the UK but not as high as Scandinavia. But that’s maybe not the full picture. Let me give you some additional highlights that you may or may not be aware of already.
Imagine a divided place just like the UK, except where your rich friends in the South add a 5.5% bonus to their tax bill to be spent by you and your poor shoeless family in the North in order to try to even things up a bit. It doesn’t really solve the inequality issue but i think Its a nice gesture.
I get paid significantly more before tax here than I would doing my equivalent job in the UK.
my wife and I get roughly 8000 euros tax free allowance each plus an extra 7000 euros for each of our two kids. So about 30k tax free allowance. Plus we get tax break for being married.
I know exactly what I’m paying for on my pay slip. It doesn’t all go into a national insurance black hole. I pay state pension at 9.35%. But as far as I understand the return at retirement is good enough that I probably won’t need private pension as well. Obviously lack of children is a concern on that front but maybe the Syrians and my own progeny will sort that out. I pay 1.5% in case I get made unemployed. I pay 1.175% in case I need to go to a care home or I need family to look after me in old age. I pay 7.3% health insurance.
for each of our kids we get paid 190 euros per child in child benefit.
I have taken 8 months of government paid parental leave paid since moving here. I was paid 1850 euros per month after tax during that time. My wife was paid an additional 20 months of paid parental leave at 1850 euros per month on top of that. That’s the max anyone can get.
there are tons of things you can deduct from your tax bill here. Expenses for education for instance. Travel expense for getting to work.
foreskinless weirdos and bible bashers have to pay extra tax. Ha.
When you couple in the cost of higher education here. Cheap childcare. Who is getting better value for money and managing a fairer society? Here or the UK. My strong suspicion is that It’s here but I’m in a particularly fortunate situation and its certainly not perfect for everyone.
Why the birthrate is so low here? No one actually knows. But it is genuinely weird. Last time I was on Shirley high street I was blown away by the number of teenage mums I saw. I’m not sure ive met any here in 6 years yet, and I spend a lot of time hanging around playgrounds, swimming pools and kindergartens. People here seem to dote on young children far more than in the UK simply because kids are more of a rarity I think. I think it must point to some fundamental difference between the people here and in the UK but I’m not sure what it is. I sometimes come to the conclusion that its simply a matter of education, that people here are better educated, more aware and less impulsive but that’s a pretty big accusation that is difficult to justify.
Who’s relying on one source? Don’t you remember, I said here’s the first thing that comes up. That’s not where i found out from, but have a read. As you don’t seem to remember to well it’s understandable that the rest confuses you(reread it), but well done for noticing the nod to Barry. Cronyism is dead because of what exactly? It’s alive and doing great, look it up. My last sentence? You really are forgetful aren’t you.
Universities and fees. Just another hideous extension of the abhorrent idea of paying for childrens education. What fool would go along with that?
But this debate is NOT about the rights or wrongs of paying for education (something we have always done through taxation) it’s about Corbyn and his typical headline grabbing ill thought out idea of who pays for what would be a very valuable improvement to primary education… The facT it’s descended into the typical class debate (and paying extra is the biggest part in that) is because there is so little rational justification for his payment idea… ‘’ they already pay 8k a year - therefore they all must be able to afford another 3k on top… It’s this assumption that is both wrong and imho idiotic.
But as mentioned before there is the typical 'let’s add in 3 other topics- the morals of independent v state education, the one you seem focuses on which is which is better long term, and then finish up with another old cliche of cronyism before accusing parents of wanting to buy their children a future…
Well that last one is a load of bollocks - I have no idea what my daughter will decide to do - I don’t even know how well she will end up doing academically - signs are encouraging but lots can change in teenage years . I just want her to be happy and discover for herself what she enjoys. She will decide what future is for her. The parent in me is just looking to ensure As good a foundation as possible choosing the best option available locally- that is all, no future buying, just looking to provide the best environment During the school years… If that makes me a cunt, or offends so be it… But It only offends those who have a deep rooted ideological issue with such and educational choice, are ignorant of the reasons many make this choice or have some prejudiced or cliched view… Educational choice is NOT all about the long term but about what provides the best learning opportunity right now in the location you are in. If that is the local state school - great, because as you say who wants to pay extra.
Can you point to other examples of Corbyn’s “typical headline grabbing”, @areloa-grandee ?
I’ve been following the party’s exploits for months. Most of Corbyn’s headlines are grabbed by his opponents, not him. You must have other examples in mind, so I’m all ears.
Cronyism - may well be rife in some circles… But that has more to do with how certain schools prepare folks for certain professions… Politics, law and some banking institutions - all of which ultimately still require the brains to succeed…
… As someone who regularly interviews candidates for cohort grad entry into a global company, I can categorically say the school they went to is not even known or discussed - has no baring on the interviews or selection - the university they attended only because of the types of course we look to recruit from. … As mentioned before, those from independent schools are probably disproportionately represented because of the qualifications and confidence many have - sure many are also arseholes, but that is typically the result of bad parenting, not school life. … most big companies have long recognised they need the best, not those from certain schools… To continue to perpetuate this myth is just plain wrong.
I handled recruitment for part of one of the Big 4 accountancy firms in London from 1999 to 2010. I personally interviewed thousands and hired hundreds in that time. It was exactly as you say above, the type, or name, of school was totally irrelevant and not even noted down.
For some years now all the accountancy firms have also been recruiting huge numbers of people at an earlier age too, namely they target kids who are bright / motivated / talented but who did not even go to university, never mind a top school. They recognise that there many very able people who are not graduates. In my case they were right
TBF, he clearly was quite a twat - you have to question your life choices if you went to private school and ended up studying a computer related degree.
