QT is good, Europe getting a smashing from all

Reasonably serious discussion
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KRG, brought it into it by correctly saying Helmer was a homophobe, I merely and correctly said the Islamic faith is (by adhering to the Qur’an) as well and that the refugee and economic migrants were in the majority Muslim, now if they follow that faith (the Qur’an) then by default they have to be homophobic as the book they follow is, religious texts aren’t a pick and mix or they shouldn’t be (unless its CoeE).

So whether we like it or not we are welcoming in people who adhere to things we find distasteful like dowry, arranged marriage and sexism, thats not controversial mate its the truth.

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we’re going to have build more closets as well as houses

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Ah good. Glad I’m not alone in the seeing the similarities in the rhetoric used.

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Searching for ghosts, I haven’t used any controversial rhetoric, what has a benefit claimant got to do with this, why use the weakest in society to try and justify your flawed points? You hammer me for correctly using a relevant example and then you bring the unemployed into it!

Fuck me, must do better and also be correct, very hypocritical Pap, expected better from you.

Happy mudslinging guys. (LRM’s)

Little Rupert Murdoch’s

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Barry, that image is already on my Twitter feed and Facebook page. It is neither a direct reply or a dig at you. It is a comment on the perils of believing everything you read on social media using a cultural reference every man and his bantha will get.

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Originally posted by @pap

Barry, that image is already on my Twitter feed and Facebook page. It is neither a direct reply or a dig at you. It is a comment on the perils of believing everything you read on social media using a cultural reference every man and his bantha will get.

Well your little band of merry men fell for your post, well done, caught two.

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We both know that one of the problems with making bold statements is that people will hold you to account for them.

In the inexplicable event that I started preaching militant violent black power, I couldn’t then escape comparisons with unsavoury people that make the same statements. If I started demonising the unemployed people would compare me with a Tory. If I suggested I was extremely concerned about Islamic extremism and going on about how certain places are becoming majority Muslim, then people would say those views are like Britain First’s.

On no account am I trying to say that you are exactly like them. I’ve met you twice now, and seem to be a decent fella. As a poster, I think you contribute some real moments of insight. Coupled with your “you’re all talking bollocks” stance (a healthy one, I may say), I think you’ve got a good niche going on here Barry, which is a counterpoint to all the agreement (and lack of debate) amongst its more lefty members.

Does organised Islam exist? Of course it does. Do we have areas that are now Muslim dominated? Of course we do. That’s a combination of white fright, and people wanting to live among their own because they’ve had too much shit from the indigenous lot. Some of the shit my mum, grandad and aunties and uncles went through was shocking by today’s standards. It is absolutely no coincidence that both of my uncles know how to handle themselves. They had to. I’m glad that our family never took the exclusion route, or honoured any of the extreme traditions you have referred to.

I think that you’re seeing an accretion of internal social pressures as some kind of planned, sinister confederacy.

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Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez

why is it you disagree with a people throw mud

That’s an interesting point. But hang on, what was immediately before that.

Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez

Am I fuck she is a cunt

Oh (in fairness to Baz, she’s pretty unpleasant I will grant you that).

Britain first are a shower of closet fascists,

Ah (although, again the names you are using are true).

like the extreme British hating pinkos

Well, it’s getting a bit silly now.

white guilt its called

the biggest threat to this Nation is not from distant shores from different religions, faiths, colours and beliefs, its from Julians and Tamela’s from Surrey who live in a teepee (they can do this as their fathers are stockbrokers).

These can basically be rolled into one. Standard reactionary fair. Any criticism of something = you hate it. “WHY DO YOU HATE BRITAIN SO MUCH?! Why don’t you just move there?”

Happy mud slinging guys.

I mean, just lol.

Edit: In fairness to Barry, it’s a fair point. We can all jump to names and insults at times (myself very much included, not trying to claim otherwise), but to make that claim whilst hurling so many names and insults about completely nullifies the point itself. And, this isn’t exactly uncommon for the person in question.

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Pap I’m not seeing anything, I speak as I find and dont need a book to guide me, it’s changed slightly now but did or have you ever noticed the church/religion is most entrenched in the poor? If they or we were all well eductaed and had a better standard of living do you religions would survive?

I don’t or not as the way they do but that’s another point, the Christian churches are 500 years ahead in that sense so of course they are more enlightened (or they should be at least) but again that is a subjective point, but I see people as equal and in some faiths on paper at least that is not the case.

These are not controversial points or thoughts, mainstream and entrely boring, luckily racism, homphobia and many others terrible things are on the decline, regardless of the person, colour, faith I will always speak out against, its cowardly not to, we have a duty a citizens to put a stop to this.

We could whilst on the topic discuss, Jamaican religious homphobia or bull fighting in Spain, fox hunting here or the demise of the Moriore by the Maori’s, the cruelty of the Portugese Empire or the Western African slave trade but it always seems if someone gives a difffering or view deemed to be offending the “underdog” then we become a racist or a Britain First supporter, the fight is being won slowly on the issue of if someone questioned 10 years ago (a year ago to me) the viability of the EU you were brandished a racist by the ignorant left lets not continue this for the next 10 years, people need to figure out you can be a socialist and still want Britain to be in control of its affairs, its not rocket science.

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I think part of the problem Barry, although I may be wrong here, is that sometimes your message comes across as a bit garbled and difficult to follow. There’s a lot of contradictions in what you post.

for example, you say that the Christian church is 500 years ahead…or at least it should be. Well, it either is or it isn’t. What you’ve said there is confusing,

you ask whether religion would exist if people get wealthier, which may have some truth in it, but then say that it might still exist in a different sense. You can’t have it both ways.

your third paragraph is quite confusing as it is poorly worded,but in it you say that homophobia and racism are on the decline but later go on to talk about how it is prevelant in some areas. It’s all just a bit confusing.

the last paragraph of your post is also confusing and begins to turn into a rant.

I would suggest proof reading posts to ensure that your message is coming across as you intend and also less contradiction…which is often in the same paragraph.

If I have understood you right, you’re saying that Islam is a homophobic religion and that Muslim refugees will be bringing that prejudice with them. You may think that you’re “saying it as you see” but you’re also massively generalising about hundreds of thousands of people, which is dangerous. I know some Muslims and some aren’t comfortable with homosexuality and others are fine. I’m not sure if that means the ones who aren’t are homophobic or not. But then I know people of other religions who are exactly the same - a mixed reaction. There’s a lot of Christians who are uncomfortable with homosexuality. You can’t judge people based on their religion, politics, colour, sexuality or whatever. This is what’s confusing, because that seems to be what you’re saying whilst you’re also judging potential Muslim refugees or migrants.

Like I say, all very confusing. You’ve got me all in a tangle. I wish I hadn’t started typing this.

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92

Originally posted by @Fatso

I think part of the problem Barry, although I may be wrong here, is that sometimes your message comes across as a bit garbled and difficult to follow. There’s a lot of contradictions in what you post.

for example, you say that the Christian church is 500 years ahead…or at least it should be. Well, it either is or it isn’t. What you’ve said there is confusing,

you ask whether religion would exist if people get wealthier, which may have some truth in it, but then say that it might still exist in a different sense. You can’t have it both ways.

your third paragraph is quite confusing as it is poorly worded,but in it you say that homophobia and racism are on the decline but later go on to talk about how it is prevelant in some areas. It’s all just a bit confusing.

the last paragraph of your post is also confusing and begins to turn into a rant.

I would suggest proof reading posts to ensure that your message is coming across as you intend and also less contradiction…which is often in the same paragraph.

If I have understood you right, you’re saying that Islam is a homophobic religion and that Muslim refugees will be bringing that prejudice with them. You may think that you’re “saying it as you see” but you’re also massively generalising about hundreds of thousands of people, which is dangerous. I know some Muslims and some aren’t comfortable with homosexuality and others are fine. I’m not sure if that means the ones who aren’t are homophobic or not. But then I know people of other religions who are exactly the same - a mixed reaction. There’s a lot of Christians who are uncomfortable with homosexuality. You can’t judge people based on their religion, politics, colour, sexuality or whatever. This is what’s confusing, because that seems to be what you’re saying whilst you’re also judging potential Muslim refugees or migrants.

Like I say, all very confusing. You’ve got me all in a tangle. I wish I hadn’t started typing this.

The Christian church is 500 years ahead, or at least it should be refers to the train thought concerning homophobia, it isn’t but it should be.

It exist in a different sense, the church of scientology is a religion of the wealthy, that doesn’t mean to say we would think like Tom Cruise more like things evolve or at least change.

Where do I say its prevalent in some areas? I say I speak out against it when I see it.

How can you be a Muslim or a follower of the Qur’an and not be homophobic, its dangerous to ignore that fact, the Christian church is rightly getting hammered by the press for this (and many followers of the faith) and it is changing, do you see this in other faith or even donominations? I go back to my 500 years example and enlightenment.

I hope this has untangled your thoughts and worries, I didn’t have any issues writing this.

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To add I’m not judging anyone, I am judging a book that is sexist, homophobic and down right violates human rights, there is a huge difference.

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No, that doesn’t help at all.

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Originally posted by @Fatso

No, that doesn’t help at all.

Cool, glad thats cleared things up.

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Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez

I hope this has untangled your thoughts and worries, I didn’t have any issues writing this.

A whole lot snipped there, but the short answer is no, it hasn’t. I agree with Fatso; your posts are written as if you simply type what’s in your mind, with no regard whatever for the sense it will make to anyone reading it. Yes, you know what you mean - but, all too often, nobody else can make any sense of your posts. It’s not just me and Fatso, it’s a frequent comment. Are we all wrong, or is it actually the case that many of your posts make sense to nobody but you?

Moving on to the main issue here (or, at least, the one that seems to have dominated this thread), First off, you spoke well of the UKIP chap on Question Time (whose name escapes me right now); next, KRG made the comment that he (the UKIP chap) holds extreme and unpleasant views on homosexuality. Your response to this was to say (not verbatim): “What about Islam? That’s well homophobic.”.

Now, you could have said that you hold no brief for said UKIP man’s views in this area, but that you thought he came across well on Question Time (and, later on, you did exactly that). But your initial response was not to say this; instead, you chose to drag Islam into the discussion. You were picked up on this, and ended up challenging all and sundry to give their views on the homphobia or otherwise of Islam. All of this on a thread that you yourself started, with the subject of anti-EU views being expressed on Question Time.

All of the comments that followed, and the flak aimed at you, stem from this (that’s how I’d see it, anyway). It’s not a question of mud-slinging; it’s a response to what you have posted.

At the risk of sounding patronising, I’d echo Fatso’s point. Don’t just type and hit the greenn button - read what you’ve written, see if it makes sense, and change it if it doesn’t. A bit of punctuation wouldn’t go amiss. Neither would posts that read coherently. As far as I can see you don’t do either of these.

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True story, Mr. Bulsara.

I’m sorry to say that I rarely read anything you write that has more than, say, 50 words, because I often end up not understanding WTF you’re on about. And I find that personally frustrating and so some deep-rooted self-preservation kicks in and some inner-Bletch tells me to stop reading.

For balance, I do read your shorter posts and enjoy them in the main.

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:lou_eyes_to_sky:

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I suppose this is, at best, another divergence, and, at worse, not even relevant, but I recently spent a little time in Albania. The ethnic breakdown of that country is roughly 60 percent Muslim, 17 percent Christian, with the rest mainly irreligious. My guide was a Muslim but described himself as a ‘secular Muslim’ who drank and smoked etc. He said that most of the Muslims in Albania were like him and that, very much in the main, there were no problems between the different religious groups and that everyone got on well together; he put this down, largely, to the fact that religion had been entirely banned for many years under the communist regime.

Now, I’m not advocating Communism as the way forward; I’m simply citing an example of a country - a relatively economically poor country - with a Muslim majority, that doesn’t seem to have the issues that are often associated to various other Muslim countries.

As regards homophobia etc, I’ve lifted the following from Wikipedia:

Albania, as a whole, is considered to be rather conservative, especially in public reactions regarding lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender (LGBT) rights and visibility of LGBT people; however, anti-discrimination legislation have made ILGA-Europe regard Albania as one of a very few countries in Europe which explicitly bans discrimination on the grounds of gender identity. Albania has ratified Protocol No. 12 to the European Convention for the Protection of Human Rights and Fundamental Freedoms, moreover Albania was a signatory to the 2007 UN Declaration on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity.
In 2015, the International Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Trans and Intersex Association (ILGA) ranked Albania 20th in terms of LGBT rights out of 49 observed European countries.

Some other rankings: Britain (2nd), Switzerland (31st), Italy (35th), Turkey (47th), Russia (48th)

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I don’t read what I write as I’ll end up boring myself and also being confused don’t worry.

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