QT is good, Europe getting a smashing from all

and sundry.

Do you though?

It depends if I have been paid or not.

Saw this. A very interesting edition of the show. Panel rankings.

Simon Schama (nominally independent); love his book, but was a bit disappointed with his often rambling performance here. Clearly the sort of chap that benefits from having the time to organise his thoughts, which he did not have here.

Rod Liddle (S*n columnist) Schama’s non-political counterpart, you’d guess. Meandered on the grammar schools point but gave a good qualified position.

Roger Helmer (UKIP) - was doing alright until an audience member picked apart his “most of these refugees are young men” line. Of course they are, Roger. What mother is going to send their daughter on such a perilous trek?

Louise Haigh (Labour) - did okay. Labour’s real weakness is the immigration issue. They need to have solid stance on how they’re going to address the problems of demand.

Amber Rudd (Conservative) - Destroyed and visibly drained at the end. I cannot see Question Time being a hospitable environment for Conservatives for the next four years.

The Audience. Top work. I’ll reserve judgement on the show stealer until we’ve determine if she’s a Corbyn plant or not

:lou_lol:

I thought Helmer and Liddle showed up the others, is Helmer not correct in he fact 70% of the “refugees” are young males?
That woman who made the point did so on a pity vote, only an absolute inbred would say that the anti European stance didn’t win last night (audience and panel).
Schama and I do like him came across as the usual metropolitan elite using his ancestry to justify a completely different issue and argument which was pitiful.
Rudd was hammered and deflated by the end of it.
Haigh is the reason all party short lists are bad ideas, weak and was completely out of her depth, labour on immigration was always going to stitch itself up, the Country is by and large massively against uncontrolled borders and yet they selfishly pursue an ideology.
They’ll now have to recant or at least change their position because they won’t get elected on that stance.
The UK has changed and people need to wake up and smell the coffee.

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Oh dear Barry… at least try and research a few things before spouting the usual anti-immigration/anti-EU doctrine… There is very good evidence that in general countries benefit from immigration. Historically the integration of cheaper labour into the workforce has seen increases in productivity, and actually increase in wages as a result. This is because of a very simple economic principle, in that business are able to expand with a lower level of investment than if using the local population that demand higher wages. The best examples of this are post war Britain and 60s and 70s West Germany, with the influx of Turkish migrants during the post war _wirtschaftwunder… _ Naturally, during recessive economic climates there is less growth, but again growth can be stiumlated as migrant labour does tend to be cheaper.

See what you and your UKIP/right wing buddies always try and do, is mix every issue associated with migration into one melting pot to confuse. The same as you freely interchange migratrion, immigration, economic migration, asylum seekers and now refugees… If you want to have an adult discussion about economic migration including the more difficult discussion about whether its OK to invite migrant workers only when we need them or whether as indicated above, the influx of cheaper labour will actually help during more difficult economic times, fair enough… but sadly you have smothered your opinion in so much of the usual bullshit rhetoric that its impossible to take anything you say seriously on either issue.

The Right always love to snigger and accuse the Left of some sort of liberal bleedin’ heart bollox, to prevent a constructuive discusion about the practical issues associated with immigration, border controls etc… and every person I speak with on the subject who is a self declared pinko, all acknolwedge that there are real practical issues associated with it, that need addressing. But closing borders, throwing around shite how refugees are really economic migrants or terrorists in hiding… is seriously as bonkers as it is a mask for bigotry and prejudice.

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Worth remembering Roger Helmer is a homophobic piece of trash that advocates the NHS funding a ‘cure’ for homosexuality and attempts to equate sex change operations for transgendered person to justify this.

This seems to be a running theme in UKIP. Strange that.

Post war Britian and in the 60’s we were in different World and where and want did the people who were invited do?

Luton has all but gone, Coventry and many others/

Where would we house them?

What about people already in the queue for housing?

Do you not see the the difference between a refugee and an economic migrant, if you don’t you fail to see a European policy of needing to do so when they enter the EU.

You do realise Germany are allowing this as they need 600,000 workers? Its not because they love immigration.

You do realise Merkel is popularity is dropping like a stone dont you?

I am all for migration and immigration, controlled and if there are 100,000 jobs need filling and the people are qualified why of course.

You do realise the left are also against this like left parties like TUSC?

Oh dear, get your self rightoeus bollocks out of your arse.

If you want to talk about skilled migration, emigration, points based systems, asylym, refugee lets do it but dont believe your good and I’m evil for wanting to protect the workers and their rights which will get eroded as these people wil not be unionised and will undercut the worker.

Your confusion in allowing in workers in the self interest of a Nation and the need to house refugees is startling and conveniently ignorant.

Apples and oranges.

I completely agree he is a bellend but what about Islam and its relationships with gays? Their record is not so good is it?

I suppose all those men could be gay fleeing persecution, in which case open the doors and let them in. The persecuted should be right at the front of the queue.

What are you suggesting baz? Better the homophobe ya know?

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It should work like this,

Women, children, the persecuted minorities and gays first ie processed as soon as can be done(Gays will be killed there (ISIS controlled territory) no doubt about, being born what you are (gay)is not compatible with the Muslim faith).

The rest will have to join a line in a holding centre in Turkey (where they are safe) and be processed under immigration laws.

Oh dear Bazza, your slip really is showing there. That’s a piss poor deflection tactic, well at home with the reactionaries on the other place.

Saying person or group x are shitty becuase of one thing, does not mean you don’t care about something else. The example there was, talking about problems of sexism here, is pointless becuase people have it worse else is just stalling and deflection. It’s utterly meaningless.

Countdown til Barry starts posting those bigotted chain mails about how Islam & the western world are incompatible…

Originally posted by @KRG

Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez

Originally posted by @KRG

Worth remembering Roger Helmer is a homophobic piece of trash that advocates the NHS funding a ‘cure’ for homosexuality and attempts to equate sex change operations for transgendered person to justify this.

This seems to be a running theme in UKIP. Strange that.

I completely agree he is a bellend but what about Islam and its relationships with gays? Their record is not so good is it?

Oh dear Bazza, your slip really is showing there. That’s a piss poor deflection tactic, well at home with the reactionaries on the other place.

Saying person or group x are shitty becuase of one thing, does not mean you don’t care about something else. The example there was, talking about problems of sexism here, is pointless becuase people have it worse else is just stalling and deflection. It’s utterly meaningless.

What is a deflection?

That post was written in code or innuendo as I can make head nor tail of it.

Are the writings in the Qur’an tolerant of homosexuals?

Is Roger Helmer?
No.

You want talk sexism and the Qur’an?

Ask a question, a direct question and I always answer.

And putting oh dear at the start of a post doesn’t make you correct, it makes you a tit but not correct.

Instead of giving Europe a “bashing” we should be finding ways to make it work better for all. This Little Englander stuff is rubbish. We need to work and trade with our neighbours, not taking our ball home in a strop because we dont get our own way. The days of Empire are long gone and we are trading on past glories. We are part of Europe - we arent stuck out in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean.

This has nothing to do with a strop, Empire or little Englander crap.
Its about controlling our own destiny and having an democratically elected Government governing the Nation, sounds fair doesn’t it?

We will get a free trade agreement with Europe, why wouldn’t we?
We can work with Europe from outside it, why do we have to be on the inside of a bloated undemocratic institution? We put in more then we get out, we can not control our borders, control energy policy, health and safety laws and many many other things.
We are grown up enough to determine our own fate and clever enough to do it well.

This is nothing against Europeans but everything against the EU, do you think its only “little Englander” who questions it?
Try Denmark (DPP) France (NF) Greece (Syriza) and many many others from all political spectrums, to only say its the right is not only incredibly naïve and ignorant its shows another age old name calling agenda from complete and utter inbreds.

In short ourselves and our European brothers and sisters are waking up from this dreadful experiment/ideal/vision, a day where we can all trade freely and all get along and all have self determination, sound good?

It does to me.

Got little sympathy for the woman crying last night. She lost that when she said she voted conservative. It was obvious before the election that they would screw the likes of her while give tax breaks to their palls. It’s what they have done for years!

Its like a Turkey voting for xmas and then going on the Saturday night take away xmas special and moaning about it to Ant and Dec.

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She voted for them, openly admitted so, never trust the tories, its hard to have sympathy for her but yes I am a socialist so she can come into the Euro sceptic socialist movement.