Yeah, we’ve put it in the Labour thread.
I don’t like commenting on it in general as I don’t believe Corbyn was anti-semetic, and a bit like BLM, I don’t feel like I have enough knowledge and background, or skin in the game, to comment on it.
Seth Rogen and Marc Maron having a very frank discussion about Israel. Fair fucking play, lads. I’ve long argued that some of the best, and most effective criticism of the Israeli state comes from Jewish commentators, some of the absolute best coming from within Israel itself.
I found this part particularly interesting:-
Among Zionists, there is anxiety that North American Jews, who could possibly outnumber Israeli Jews, are becoming less supportive of the Jewish state, even as surveys often show the opposite.
It’s interesting because Zionism is a project predicated on getting Jewish people to move to Israel, with the ideal being getting everyone to move there. That is never going to happen. The diaspora is in general, doing very well and has never had more people looking out for them. In North America, Jewish folk are the top-performing socio-economic group.
Yes, I read that article. Very interesting I thought.
This will have the Zionists tying themselves in knots. Just imagine if a non Jewish actor had said this. He would immediately have been labeled an anti-semite, with all that would entail for his career.
That Yoav Shamir film I often cite makes it very clear that Israel is the back up plan for the North American diaspora, not the destinataion.
If the shit hits the fan, Israel is there, is the logic.
The mere existence of Jewish people doing well outside of the context of Israel is a threat to Israel. That is something the early Zionists never considered, because they had a legitimate wish for a homeland after centuries of persecution, and faced virile actual antisemitism that prevented them from reaching whatever they might be capable of being and put them in physical danger just for being Jewish.
That is still, sadly, a depressing reality in many parts of the world. I don’t think it’s a problem in America, and that is a view that will be shared by those that have the lived experience of being Jewish in America.
I think there will come a time when it’s felt the safety net is no longer required. It will be very interesting to see how the Israeli government responds to that.
Regarding antisemitism in the US, Rogen may not concur:
I’ve listened to the podcast. I’d recommend all do the same. It is as funny as shit, brutally frank, and yep, this was said. Having done so, I can’t entirely accept the Guardian’s context. It’s alright, but it’s not great.
I think the podcast is a darn sight better than that. In the abstract, it’s about two dudes with a shared cultural perspective railing against some of the dogma and taboos they’ve become inured to.
Both get kudos for mentioning specifics, and while I completely accept that is what Rogen said, both participants also said they would never move to Israel. Rogen went as far as saying it was a long time since he’d met a nice Israeli.
Hints of what happened toward the end of the South African regime? It does feel a bit like that.
Fascinating vid.
Strange people.
I was on a flight from New York back to London once when an Orthodox Jew refused to sit next to a woman so they moved him to the emergency exit row where I was sitting and then just as the plane started to taxi off the stand he stood up and started to pray. On being told to sit down by the stewardess he said “you cannot talk to me like that ÿou are a female and I am praying” he then got told to “sit the fuck down you fuckin twat the rest of us want to fly out of here” for some reason he did not try to speak to me on the rest of the journey. He did sit down though.
Rebuked eh? That will show them!
Is this thread anti-semitic?
I’m sensing a theme here.
Read the thread title again.
It’s about Israel.
Remember the phrase “a good time to bury bad news”?
“A good time to perform illegal annexations”.
There’s a long history of most people in Israel being pissed off with the ultra-Orthodox. Apparently, many of them do not work. The recent fuss was over military service, not something the ultra-Orthodox have been traditionally involved in.
There is a huge divide between the tolerant and progressive Jews and the Ultra Orthodox, one wants relations and a two state solution and actually cares what the Worlds thinks of Israel and Palestine and the other are a shower of religious zealots.