:Ru: Care to comment on Russian aggression?

:Ru: Care to comment on Russian aggression?
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#221

I was talking to @SaintBristol, Barry.

If I were talking to you, I’d suggest something else. I don’t think you’ve got the necessary onions to sneak back under the TSW radar. You’d be sniffed out in a picosecond.


#222

I agree, I haven’t got the skills to fly under the radar, I know my limits son.


#223

I’ve no idea what TSW is mate.


#224

SaintsWeb. If an unadulterated stream of centrist, pro-establishment opinion is what you want, you’ll find comfort there.


#225

I’m sure I’ve seen Ted Maul on there.


#226

Me too, he was a pro establishment centrist


#227

His namesake’s Day Today stories are almost as funny as Newsnight’s hired fake vicar.


#228

Where as this is distinctly anti British pro Russian and anyone who dislikes the British site, right or wrong there’ll be a spurious quote or tweet to back some wide eyed bizarre conspiracy.
This isn’t even a left site its a site of foreign elites.
Putin was on here the other day with Trump arranging a golf huggy as well as fixing some more elections somewhere, SOS was trying to get on board but was told it was only twosomes…


#229

Actually think this is a balanced but Cynical site. None of us trusts anything anyone says.


#230

Balanced, the scales of justice in North Korea spring to mind…


#231

Accusing everyone of being foreign provocateurs will definitely bring everyone around to your cause.

It worked in North Korea.


#232

I haven’t got a clue in what you said there Pap but got a semi at foreign provocateurs, a sort of secret rendezvous in a Paris backstreet wearing suspenders and heels…


#233

There we go, a pro EU paper to the core. Opinion of course but I rate it higher than blag twitter quotes.


#234

Got this of the comments section, no doubt this was planned by the higher echelons in power in Kiev and Moscow seeing Ukraine drift west towards change, democracy and prosperity.

The state of the place now, as I said I’d close of the straits to Russian military in Turkey, Merkel/ Kramp-Karrenbauer has a good idea for all EU ports to close to all Russian Sea of Azov origin merchant fleet.

"The Kremlin aide added that the political and social cost of EU integration could also be high, and allowed for the possibility of separatist movements springing up in the Russian-speaking east and south of Ukraine. He suggested that if Ukraine signed the agreement, Russia would consider the bilateral treaty that delineates the countries’ borders to be void.

"We don’t want to use any kind of blackmail. This is a question for the Ukrainian people," said Glazyev. “But legally, signing this agreement about association with EU, the Ukrainian government violates the treaty on strategic partnership and friendship with Russia.” When this happened, he said, Russia could no longer guarantee Ukraine’s status as a state and could possibly intervene if pro-Russian regions of the country appealed directly to Moscow.

"Signing this treaty will lead to political and social unrest," said the Kremlin aide. “The living standard will decline dramatically … there will be chaos.”"


#235

What amuses me about your stance regarding Ukraine is that you don’t see the aggression on the other side. The whole crisis was sparked by the tussle over the country, with the EU and Russia pulling at opposite ends.

The EU offered the Ukrainian government a deal. The Russians offered them a much better one, with fewer strings attached. The Ukrainian government agreed to the Russian deal.

At this point, the US gets involved, getting agitators into Ukraine, with the CIA helping to orchestrate a coup which left far right politicians in charge, their militias on the streets, the annexation of Crimea and civil war in the Donetsk region.

If you take the view that the EU is empire by way of treaty, as I think you probably do, then the efforts to get into Ukraine, a country with strong ties and long borders with Russia, is only ever going to be seen as a provocation in Moscow, and much of the rest of the world ( excluding the @Barry-Sanchez and @SaintBristol manses, of course ).


#236

So you discount the fact many citizens wanted a more prosperous and open Ukraine aligned to the ideals of the EU/Western society?
Nevermind they have a Russian puppet in power ripping off the Country left, right and centre?
Of course there will be players from areas pulling strings, Jesus Christ thats how it works but it doesn’t mean a nation can not legitimately have a vote or change the course or their destiny, for instance I’d 100% support a legitimate Crimea independence vote GIVEN by Kiev or even in the East where there has been major incursions by the Russians stoking up internal strife.
The provocation bit is something I actually fully agree with, thats the EU expansionism agenda but that doesn’t mean a nation shouldn’t legally pursue their own destiny, how can a threat of something illegal stop something perfectly legal?

Russia has always been scared of invasion because of its geography hence its aggressive history of keeping satellite states on its borders, with the fall of the wall many nations looked West and Russia shit itself as it could easily be invaded very very quickly, on its eastern borders China’s influence is growing daily and there is nothing they can do about that but thats influence not actual invasion and for now they’re good bed fellows but in our lifetime that will change, but for the present Russia has to protect its borders and keeping forces illegally in places it used to govern keeps said places from joining the EU and NATO.

Russia has lived, thrived and fallen on paranoia for all its existence.


#237

I suspect it could heat up an awful lot more now Georgia’s new president is in, I’d thought she was more accommodating to Moscow than her rival but her opening salvo seems pretty pro EU and reform to me.

Hopefully we can see Russia leave there as they are totally not needed and wanted and after the war there they are only there to stoke tensions and division for their own end.


#238

Pro NATO and reads like propaganda bingo. I didn’t even finish the third paragraph.
Let’s stick to real quotes.

James Baker, George H.W. Bush’s secretary of state, assured Soviet President Mikhail Gorbachev in 1990 that if he said yes to German reunification under NATO auspices, there would be “no expansion of NATO jurisdiction to the east, not one inch.”

You still believe these people?
A warning from the American ambassador in Moscow.

“the issue could potentially split the country in two, leading to violence or even, some claim, civil war, which would force Russia to decide whether to intervene.”

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/08MOSCOW265_a.html

Then you need to remember who orchestrad the violent, undemocratic regime change, to put nazis in, that openly admitted they want to wipe out native Russians, or as they described them “sub humans”.

The phone conversation blows all pretence out the water.

But you still believe these people, right?


#239

Between the lies yes of course, more do than Russia, there is merit in why Russia has invaded Ukraine and I understand it but that doesn’t mean it should be excused, why can’t Ukraine join NATO or the EU if they decide to?
Georgia as well?

Why not? Are you a denier of democracy!


#240

The Ukrainians that overthrew the democratically elected government in a foreign aided coup certainly were democracy deniers.

As to why the Ukraine should not join NATO, I don’t think anyone should join NATO. NATO’s mission ended at the close of the Cold War. It’s new mission involves conducting military actions right on Russia’s doorstep. The capture of Ukraine by the West has essentially created a new southern front for Russia to worry about.

The deal, agreed by the democratically elected government, would have provided peace and a lot of cash to Ukraine. Instead, we’ve got yet another country where the West has meddled with, on its way to becoming a failed state.