They’re all back in Poland it seems.
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Doesn’t matter what Brexit leaders think does it, it’s not about them, it’s about us common people and our sovereignty init, not those who now find it inconvenient that they can only stay 90 days in any 180 day period in their homes in Provance. The Elite advocating Brexit don’t need to worry about the consequences really… mind you would love it it the French told him to get to fuck
So, Gibraltar gets to join the shengen open border zone 
It’s unlikely to cause any specific financial benefits, in practical terms. In fact, there’s a valid argument for suggesting that our engagement in the last World War was equally pointless; the Germans would have run the country better and more efficiently than we have, we wouldn’t be in hock to the Americans (both financially and politically,) so in purely economic terms we’d have been better advised to simply accept the takeover. My own view of the referendum in 2016 was that I’d have more money if we stayed in, but that it would be paid for with the principles of self-determination and autonomy of governance for future generations which probably wouldn’t affect me.
The casual and derisive dismissal of the concepts of sovereignty and fiscal autonomy are always invoked by the remain camp, presented in such a way as to imply that they are of no importance at all, and furthermore that anyone believing they are important is by definition a xenophobic Little Englander and probably a racist. In fact, it doesn’t need much thinking to understand that the body responsible for control of a countries borders clearly is relevant to it’s citizens, of any nation. It isn’t xenophobic to believe that UK border and immigration policy should be controlled by the UK government, elected by and accountable to the the UK electorate. It isn’t deluded to believe that the same principle should apply to major economic policies such as public borrowing/spending, taxation, and interest rates, but that’s another pretty obvious principle that’s always dismissed as irrelevant.
Sorry, but that argument can largely be turned around.
Let’s face it approx half of the eligible voters went for Brexit and half for remain.
You, me or anyone aren’t going to change each other’s views on here. The one thing that’s depressing about these Brexit threads is the no one is going to change each other’s views but we still keep piling in to the arguments - even me though I know it’s a waste of time.
Time for me to mute this one and try and keep away. Think I’ll got and cheer myself up on the Covid thread instead…oh, wait. Different shit show, same politicians ffs
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It’s never just been about economics, but the concept of sovereignty is in question, as what impacts people most is not who or where a decision is made but what the decision is… and we asked the question during the ref debate exactly how many EU rules and regs would have been made differently by Westminster and no one could present a single one… there is a natural homogeneity to these things Within a global economy
And you can’t deny that there is an element of Little Engender jingoism to anyone who believes it to be important…
Immigration is a big issue because there are many who to this day don’t understand the difference between the numbers who worked here utilising the EU freedom of movement Versus economic migrants, versus asylum seekers versus refugees… the immigration arguments were never about the reality of such nuances, but followed Farage and his ilks more unsavoury campaigning, so again it’s important and relevant to the debate. To dismiss it is disingenuous but it’s an uncomfortable truth.
My views are in fact not born out of the economic arguments, nor do they ignore all that was wrong with the EU - something that could have been addressed by the UK being a fully committed member as opposed to the Tory infighting and our little Englander mentality that we ‘must retain the pound’ etc…
We maybe need to accept we have these island characteristics in a small majority who place excessive Importance on these things… I have never had such feelings as placing any importance on national identity is alien to me… life’s to short and in another couple of 1000 years what we called ourselves will just be a couple of sentences in a Digital history book…
However, if I am not allowed to be so dismissive of those who value sovereignty, then I should be equally entitled to place value in the opposite
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But the UK border and immigration policy was already controlled by the UK as a member of the EU, as demonstrated a a week before Christmas by France and Ireland who exercised this sovereign right by unilaterally closing their borders due to fears about the new variant. The suggestion to the contrary was just more misinformation and falsehoods. Let’s look at some more of them.
‘We will leave the EU but there will continue to be free trade, and we will retain access to the single market’ -Boris Johnson.
Within minutes of a vote for Brexit the CEOs of Mercedes, BMW, VW and Audi will be knocking down Chancellor Merkel’s door demanding that there will be no barriers to German access to the British market. - David Davis.
The day after we vote to leave we will hold all the cards. - Michael Gove.
The free trade agreement we will do with the EU will be one of the easiest in human history. -Liam Fox.
Not one job will be lost because of Brexit - Lord Digby Jones.
There are countess more, the biggest one probably the lie on the big red bus about the 350 million.
This was a good one by Johnson. 'There will be frictionless trade and British people will be free to live, travel, study buy homes and settle down in the EU. The bit about studying is a laugh considering his decision to scrap the Erasmus program. Here he is in parliament just this year
He is a bare faced lying toad.
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That in itself is quite astonishing, when you consider that every major party campaigned for remain, and that we are a nation that traditionally places an enormous amount of stock in preserving the status quo. The simple fact that a majority, however slender, voted for such a massive sea-change of direction in those circumstances says a lot in itself.
What does it say though? The arguments about this have been many, but would you not concede that after 10 years of austerity, it’s not surprising that there was a reaction especially from those areas that had felt the brunt of the austerity more than most, and were told it would all go away once we controlled our borders and took back sovereignty… by the very same lying bastards who had led us into such austerity in the first place… they blamed the wrong institution
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We always had sovereign control over our borders, the regaining sovereignty bollocks was just that - bollocks. Some of the "it’s sovrinty innit’ brigade probably thought it meant the EU would get rid of the royals! Just more lies for the masses, sadly lapped up by fans of the liar in chief.
Max Hastings on Boris Johnson, and he should know, he was his boss and sacked him for lying.
“He would not recognize the truth, whether about his private or political life, if confronted by it at an identity parade”.
“He is unfit for national office, because he cares for no interest save his own fame and gratification. Tory MPs have launched this country upon an experiment in celebrity government, matching that taking place in Ukraine and the US”.
“Dignity still matters in public office, and Johnson will never have it. Yet his graver vice is cowardice, reflected in a willingness to tell any audience, whatever he thinks most likely to please, heedless of the inevitability of it’s contradiction an hour later”.
“For many of us his elevation will signal Britain’s abandonment of any claim to be a serious country. We can scarcely strip the emperor’s clothes from a man who has built a career, not to mention a lurid love life, out of strutting without them”.
“It is impossible that a man who is false to his friends and neighbours should be true to the public. Almost the only people who think Johnson a nice guy are those who do not know him”. And this absolutely nails the man.
“I have a hunch that Johnson will come to regret securing the prize for which he has struggled so long, because the experience of the premiership will lay bare his absolute unfitness for it”.
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Bill Hicks was a stand-up comedian. He told jokes. The skit his new TV show, “Let’s hunt and kill Billy Ray Cyrus”. I think he also did one about Jay Leno interviewing Joey Lawrence, before blowing his brains out on air.
I think the key thing that distinguishes your Hicks from your Cherts is that Hicks’ jokes were funny, and people knew they were jokes at the time of their telling.
I’ll say the same thing as I always do when things are retroactively classified as jokes because “no-one got them”
Don’t give up the day job! 
Please. Until 31st January this year, we, an island nation, had a border with Ukraine through our membership of the EU.
Whenever the EU absorbs a new state, the sovereignty of all members is affected, treaty change or not. Each new country is one more country that needs to be convinced in votes requiring unanimity.
I’ll stick up for it a little bit here. As an organisation, it was well aware that accessions meant great upheaval. It had a sensible policy that prevented freedom of movement from being available for the first seven years of membership to any new countries.
That was a great idea. Blair waived it. I wonder if we’d be where we are now today if he hadn’t. Don’t think we’d be leaving.
Hmm, could the EEA be devalued by the British deal?
https://www.thelocal.no/20201229/norways-centre-party-the-british-have-a-better-deal-than-the-eea
Do you lot have nothing better to do on new years eve ?
Just asking like
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Loads. You wouldn’t be impressed with any of it
Maybe I should have posted my joke on Facebook and Twitter, and used my 3 likes from pitying friends as proof that I’m a comic genius…it seems to work for you.
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It tells me this country is full of idiots, who don’t know their arse from their elbows.
What’s it tell you?
I thought it was funneh.
HTH
Around 200 is a good score for a Facebook post.
Have you got that many followers on Twitter yet?
The Aftermath Diaries - Day One
It’s almost nine hours since the UK left the Brexit transition period, and I’m a bit miffed. I’ve spent the last four years prepping fuelled by the hysteria of the likes of Andrew Adonis, who compared the exit to the Munich Agreement.
I wish I’d known that earlier. I’ve focused on shotguns and Pot Noodles. I’d have bought a few more Spitfires if only Adonis had dropped this bombshell earlier.
I’ve peered out of the patio door. There are a few spent fireworks, but no major bits of the sky as far as I can make out.
I’ve not heard of any “sky strikes” elsewhere in the UK.
We tiptoe forward with trepidation. It’s early yet, but better than predicted so far
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