You are correct about responsibilty, but there is a big but here. This IS a global problem, and the sooner we can get back to ‘normal’ the better for everyone, business, industry etc etc… We only do take care of our own… we do not solve that.
The issues on this thread have blurred a little as there are three things going on, so for clarity…
Whether the UK is somehow brilliant because it got in contracts that meant a good proportion of its orders would be manufactured in etc UK… versus EU being ‘behind’ and there the UK is great hooray blah blah… etc. Reality is all countries placed orders early prior to and approvals for a number of different vaccines to as no one knew which would be best etc… there is no ‘winner here’ just everyone doing what it could re orders
The unfortunate situation for everyone that all manufacturers despite ramping production capability globally are struggling to meet demand and fulfil all orders as originally agreed, due to production problems in some manufacturing plants. So the argument starts between the EU and UK about which orders should be fulfilled first…and it may well result in a contact dispute/legal bollocks were the only winners are the lawyers.
Did the EU make mistakes in their contracts? I dont know, and lets be honest, who on here has see the non-redacted copies? A legal decision will be made and one side will get screwed … unless both sides get together and consider how to resolve…or the manufacturers make their own decisions… I find it distasteful that there is a sense of ‘gloating’ going on given many in UK think EU has Fucked up and its great we are no longer part of it… well glass houses and all that. Only real losers here are those who are most vulnerable to getting the vaccine now… but much later. You dont need to like the EU, but scoring cheap points over this issues is crass
Issue of clinical need versus international supply. This is the more moral/philosophical discussion. Given that we all want the same thing, which is a return to normalcy asap, is it not right and proper this includes everyone, not just us in isolation, after all, if we need to keep borders shut because of risks of folks arriving from countries where there is still high levels of transmission, with high death rates, who feels comfortable having a vaccine which they probably wont need (IF all our vulnerable folks already are vaccinated), ahead of others in neighbouring countries who are still waiting? In addition, the issue of mutation that renders our vaccinated population vulnerable again + if all vulnerable were vaccinated we could get on with things much earlier, given if those under 50 get it, most will be mild or asymptomatic… Is it practical, is the world fair? Does anyone really care enough? I suspect not as its the same attitude that drives people to hoard toilet rolls and selfishly buy up goods. Of course it wont happen, but that does not make the fact it wont any more palatable
Just for Barry this one. Yes I am pro Europe. But that does NOT mean I believe the EU as it is to be the right system, the right approach, or that it does not allow corruption or does not fuck up. (I can say the exact same about UK Government to)
But that is irrelevant to the issue of clinical need and folks pissing themselves because the EU may get less supply than it was promised and the vulnerable there may die as they wait. It has fuck all to do with Remain or Brexit and all to do with whether you feel its more important we vaccinate British under 40s than foreign over 75s… its a simple POV.
I’ll think you’ll find most Brits would want the vulnerable to be vaccinated and then the left overs given to the most vulnerable elsewhere, why are you looking at a caveat for an argument?
Oh its because your EU got shown up by the Brits, no one on here gives a fuck about Brits/EU nationalistic coshite other than you as you see it as a way to advance your misguided and bigoted viewpoint of solely EU citizens getting the vaccine and not others outside of a made up border.
British vulnerable first and then the Worlds vulnerable not the the EU’s vulnerable, we’re not in the EU anymore and they’re not 3rd World, the Worlds poorest are suffering the most and will continue to suffer the most so they need the surplus vaccine more than anyone else.
And Boris Johnson is a cunt but fairs fairs on the vaccine rollout, its been more successful than most so if he takes shit and he can also have some credit.
That is NOT the line in our media, nor has it been on here, even from you so dont back track now
Again do you actually read the thread and posts, and even remember your own ‘British people first’’ (which rings a bell…)
Please share or quote me where i have ever said EU vulnerable ahead of worlds vulnerable… it all vulnerable… but I guess that does not suit your narrow narrative
There is no ‘surplus vaccine’ you idiot, all countries shave ordered more than they need because NO one was sure which would be effective or which approved… we do not need 300million doses in the UK yet that is what we have ordered. The point is not about surpluses but about fulfilment and timing and whether, we should take even 100million of our order before other countries get a proportion of theirs… it really should not be that difficult to grasp.
As for Boris, what has he done exactly? Yes we may be ahead on the vaccination front than other countries, but we have the highest number of deaths in Europe and highest death rate globally only last week, so I for one wont be singing any praises for the fucking idiotic selfish cunt
I’m not backtracking from anything, I’ve said this all the way through.
I still stand by that, why can’t you take that in, its not difficult, its quite a simple concept, are you simple?
So we can agree the surplus from the UK’s stocks shouldn’t go to the EU, they should go to where its most needed?
IE the 3rd World and the poorest?
You really are a simpleton, if we have more vaccine than we require (current estimates are that if orders are honoured we could have 5/6 times more than we require) than that means its a surplus irrespective of wordplay.
You’re an idealist who backed the wrong horse, just change the idealist bit and change the bet, we all fuck up no dramas.
Read this and be a bit less argumentative when you’re plainly talking out your hoop, you’ve been hammered that much in this thread it reminds me of Ivan Drago and Apollo Creed in Rocky IV…
You are rather selective in your quotes here Barry, but thankfully if there is anyone left reading the thread, they will be aware of what you are attempting… context is after all important, so if you cant be arsed either reading what folks post so that you avoid accusing them of things they have not said, or selectively quoting to remove context, then there is simply no point. Enjoy debating by yourself.
The bottom line is the UK’s Government for all of its ills has saved more lives than the EU’s through their course of action.
There will be calculations after this of how many, it’ll be a large amount, one of the reasons the EU is playing hardball and like a cunt.
I just find it amusing, admirable even, that at a time when even Femi is starting to crack, our @Map-Of-Tasmania cracks on.
I haven’t dug deep into the details, but it seems like we offered a higher cost per dose, firms are honouring that first to get the readies in, while the EU, with it’s collective bargaining power, got a bulk lot price and is miffed that they’re not getting seen to first.
Then you’ve got the ridiculous shit on the Northern Ireland agreement which was decided upon and u-turned on in a night, which proves that the EU never gave a fuck about Ireland beyond its ability to comply.
It is quite complicated how they work it out I think, it covers r&d and actually the manufacturing of the vaccine so the EU and the UK will possibly get it cheaper than others as they produce and created the vaccine,
As per MOT its seems a pride thing, the EU have backtracked and fallen on their sword (almost) yet MOT is the Python’s knight…
Admirable yet wrong.
What is it with you guys that you are just blind to what is right in front of you, or are you so desperate to believe shite about folks that you remain so stubborn?.. I just want to understand how many times I have to say I have never believed the EU is this perfect thing, or cannot make fuck ups etc, but this all started because of the impression some were giving that that we should be laughing at the ‘EU fucking up’ - without even mentioning that the losers here are vulnerable people.
Second, we got lucky. Every nation has ordered excess stocks of all vaccines from most manufactures - the link I shared on a post (that seems to have been moved because of Barry being a cunt) which was published by the VTF shows this clearly.
All countries ordered from multiple manufacturers and plants, because no one knew which would be best, approved first etc… Yes its good we ordered early and committed to it with more cash, but supply fulfilment seems to be an issue because of manufacturing problems, not the contracts or speed with which they were signed, or price paid. In effect everyone was expecting delivery now, and its not happening. Yes, we now see a legal dispute and the EU may find their contract are less solid, but is that something to gloat about when its folks lives at stake? Especially when no one could have predicted ‘which’ manufacturing sites would have issues?
The NI thing is of course ridiculous, stupid and makes them look like they fools but as I have said countless times being pro Europe and pro EU does not mean you support everything they do or thing think they are above criticism… all governments and institutions do ridiculous things… just look at what a fucking shit fest Boris et al have made over the last 12 months… highest deaths per capita in Europe, last week highest infection rate globally. I have not seen Europeans laughing and gloating at this…
I just find it amusing that its such a big deal to you that I must be ‘defending the EU no matter what’ which is hilarious, I have not defended anyone, institution EU or otherwise…but whatever, fill your boots.
''Dr Alberto Giubilini, from the Oxford Uehiro Centre for Practical Ethics at the University of Oxford, said: “I think that the more vaccine doses we have in the UK, the stronger the reason to give some to the EU. It is not just about being generous, it is to make sure that the problem is addressed at the collective level, which is the only level at which it can be addressed if we want long term positive outcomes.”
I suggest a professor of ethics might have a fair comment to make on this…
