SNP Pete wishart has said that govt calls for an election are an “attempt to suspend democracy”
Now I appreciate that I can be a little slow on the up take from time to time particularly when grappling the giant cucumber, but how can an election suspend democracy?
https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status/1169578120174821376?s=20
Which means Johnson won’t be able to repeal the forthcoming anti-no deal bill and force us into a no deal Brexit. He’ll have to ask for an extension to Article 50.
Haven’t the EU already said that they won’t give us one??
Unless there is a good reason to. Like a GE.
Well ya see matey, there be more dimensions, interpretations and definitions of democracy than universes in an infinite universe theory spouted by the like of prof Cox. In fact rumour has it that when asked to explain the definitions of true democracy prof Hawking shat himself and never recovered…
I suspect what the old SNP mucker was referring to was the parliamentary democracy init… not the one that refers to the electorate eg the version that means the democratically elected MPs are not only elected to represent us but to actually use their experience and insight to make wise choices and have the opportunity to do so as opposed to not getting the opportunity to do so… assuming this the appropraite definition of democracy to use in this case… fucked if I know
When you have people that you can quote, pointing out “that parliament, not government is souvenir”, who then try to subvert this principle, it’s probably the correct definition.
As Tony Benn once said, all of his powers as an MP were lent to him by his electors. At the end of every Parliament, he had to seek permission to lend them again. If he’d have used those powers irresponsibly, they’d have thrown him out.]
On that basis then, it is the people, not Parliament that is sovereign. Those borrowed powers exist because no-one can be arsed asking the entire electorate every question, all the time.
What we have at the moment where those borrowed powers are being used to thwart a direct democratic mandate, the exact opposite of representation. In this context, Parliament is not only not sovereign; it is doing the exact opposite of its job, and won’t vote for a new general election to allow other people to take over.
Oh dear, still following that line. Parliament(however temporary each members time) is sovereign and at no time before the referendum did any of present government(or anyone) stand on a “no deal” platform. Quite the opposite if you would bother refreshing your memory. YouTube is best, as moving pictures really do stay in the memory.
It’s like you’ve forgotten what out and out liars pfeffel, smogg, gove, farage and their ilk really are. Go back and check. No one said the things you now demand.
Then I’d appreciate if you could explain why close to 500 MPs voted for the Withdrawal Act, leaving no deal as the default option.
This piece of legislation they’re going to pass on Monday, unless repealed, could basically keep us in forever. Why would the EU give us a deal if that is the legal trigger point at which we can leave?
Maybe what some folks forget is that MPs are NOT just elected to represent the views of their electorate but also one would hope to make difficult decisions using their intelligence and wisdom on our behalf where we as the electorate may not have the necessary knowledge of time to digest every single complex question and provide an informed directive… it’s thankfully why referenda are suitably rare… if they may a choice that is opposed to the view of their constituency then one has to admire their courage to stand by their belief as opposed to simply wanting to be re-elected … it’s why the whole will of the people shit spouted by so many is as nauseating as it is sad… sad that we have become a nation in which mass opinion outweigh rational debate… afterall if a majority voted for public execution to return, I would hope our elected reps had the courage to overturn the idiocy of the ‘majority’ …
… the issue at stake here is simple, the MPs feel it is not in the best interests of the country or its people to have a no deal Brexit… so some have gone against local constituency feeling and know the consequences and good on them. That is the democracy we have - they are free to make such decisions and we are FREE to vote them out in a few weeks time If we don’t like what they did.
To me that is not a bad thing
Because that was the right to do at the time.
Only in yours and smoggs mind.
How exactly did you make that leap?
Not going to happen. There is a majority that want to settle and most understand that means both ends get something, but not everything.
Because it’s already been agreed. Do you think Corbyn went for talks, acted like a tory and waved a muffin in their face, screaming “you’ll be lost without us”. Or do you think he negotiated a deal with people that spend their lives negotiating deals?
Stop buying the tory far right bollocks.
If no deal is not presently the default legal option, then please explain why Parliament is introducing legislation to change that.
The problem with this referenda is that the way we rationalise our decisions on which way we voted is selfish … and I don’t give a flying fuck if you pretend to yourself its a principle or conviction, because even that is selfish - willing to accept others will be fucked to satisfy your ‘principles’ … so what do I mean? Well I just watched a bit of good old shit TV in which Cornish Fisherman were all for Brexit … because they would get UK control over fishing rights and quotas… they were NOT concerned with anything else and at no time did any even bother to acknowledge that Brexit May negatively impact on other export driven industry… others as we have seen were more concerned with impact of migrant workers … others seeing the benefit of FOM… all of us are selfish voting as we do for what we believe is right for us… either pragmatically or on principle… it’s why we elect MPs to make more balanced choices or one would hope so… that is also a definition of democracy
Parliament is introducing legislation exactly because it never was the default position.
Show me one of the present shit show in power standing on that platform pre referendum.
Indeed it was the default position to combat ‘project fear’ that the negotiated deal would NOT leave us in any economic shit…
The negotiated deal that all of them(yes, every single one) said would be a piece of piss and be done and dusted quicker than you could say “unicorns”?
That’s probably why they took not so much as a pencil to the first meeting 
It really isn’t a problem exclusive to referendums.
The first thing I learned in A level politics was that inside the ballot box, self-interest rules, no matter what people might have said before they enter.
It’s why exit polls are so accurate (the deed is done) compared to polls conducted prior to an election.
That self-interest can be financial, ideological or whatever, but its ultimately the thing that drives voters. If people feel they’re doing alright under the incumbent government or the existing framework, they’ll vote for it.
If not, they’ll vote for change.
And there in lies the issue with the E.U. ref. It was a vote how shit folks felt their lives had become after 10 years of austerity… fair enough. They just blamed the wrong institution… where were Farage and Boris telling the truth ‘sorry, Tory austerity has fucked things for you, but we think we will get rich hedging things if you vote Brexit and in addition we will cement a new right wing order in the Tory Party’ ?
There is s shit load wrong with the E.U… but Would stake my house on the fact that the majority who voted Brexit were not thinking about those issues when they voted as they did… they were thinking about being fucked by austerity or the lies spread about how immigration and freedom of movement was to blame…
FoM was absolutely a factor, especially in austerity, which let’s not forget, was and is happening on a continental scale.
Was the EU responsible for our austerity? Only partially.
Was the EU responsible for austerity in Eurozone countries? Absolutely. Those countries had to get their spending plans signed off, which is why there is so much unrest in places like France and Italy.