This won’t help your blood pressure, but it’s good to remember all the people/groups behind the money that paid for it all(not a nice bunch and it was many years in the planning). Lots of links to some decent investigate journalism, that’ll keep you busy all night if you’re so inclined.
“What was billed as a way for people to take back control of democracy has become a systematic attack on every institution which underpins it.”
I’d argue that a key determinant in raising blood pressure would be subscribing to the worst case scenario all of the time.
It must be wearying.
Want a cup of tea mate?
No, it’s probably got a nuclear warhead at the bottom, controlled by Nigel Farage.
etc, etc.
I know. But some of us are worried about it all.
I know that the no deal rhetoric has been dialled up in recent days, but to be fair this was exactly the message we should have been giving out at the outset
I think most people want a smith transition and a good trade deal but as in all negotiations unless the other side think you might walk away, they have no incentive to change their stance. May didn’t do this and look where we are.
Throughout this the EU have relied on the fact that no deal would never get through Parliament. Now there is some uncertainty- that is good from our perspective.
The backstop is a piece of shit - everyone knows that, but if the EU suspect a no deal is imminent, I suspect that a cast iron time limit will emerge to resolve it. Probably on the 30th
Alistair Campbell lying and spinning to the last. He knew two weeks ago he was out of the party. The decision to expel him was approved by the disputes committee and the officers aat the procedure working party delivered it to him 2 days ago. At his meeting with them he was told by the lawyers that he was screwed, didn’t have a leg to stand on. These are the facts.Classic narcissism, wanting people to believe he is leaving the party for any amount of reasons except for the real one, he got kicked out. In an unbiased media the headlines this morning would have read, ‘Man resigns after being sacked’.
Campbell told us all today that the Labour Party has been taken over by Stalinists and Communists, on any objective level he knows that isn’t true, he knows he is lying. The truth is that the Blair Governments and the Blairite fans in the PLP today were and are a very definition of a Stalinist clique.
Taking away the role of members and trade unionists. Parachuting in centrally appointed parliamentary candidates in to unwilling constituencies. Regular purges of the left and stifling dissent. Selling the party to vested interests represented by professional lobbyists. Etc etc. These people, represented by Campbell and his crew have never accepted their loss of control of the Labour Party, and will do everything in their power to prevent a Labour Party with socialist policies being elected.
I know Campbell has suffered from depression and i do sympathise with him over that, although i suppose having the deaths of countless thousands of brown people in the Middle East on your conscience would tend to be a factor in that department. But at least he got treatment and is now depression free, the brown people are left with just a photo on the mantelpiece.
Really depends on what type of negotiation they were planning on… an aggressive fuck you winner takes all, or a collaborative win - win which gives everyone a decent result… as with all our EU dealings since the Thatcher it’s been an antagonistic fuck you… it might lead to some sort of painfully extracted deal, but that is the whole fucking shit mess these twats seem hell bent on delivering… it’s not about what is best for the country, but a fucking ego trip for a few individuals to say they have ‘won’ - to try and show they are ‘strong’ and have fucked these Europeans good and proper… this is not intelligent or mature politics, it’s childish immature wankfest Trumpism - ‘look at me, ain’t I delivering what the ‘people’ want BS… the people who ain’t got a clue how I am taking them for a ride’
Oh to be so positive, chirpy and cheerful all the time like you whilst the country is being lead to rack and ruin by a bunch of people who do not have the populations interests at heart.
But we’ll still have our sovereignty (which we never lost) and blue passports (made in France).
I am full of respect for your post NK… and don’t disagree with your POV on Campbell. But if you remove who said it and extract the main point of his Brexit:nodeal POV from his beef with ten Labour Party, he makes a valid point about how Corbyns position is playing right into Johnson’s hands… we might not like the messenger, or the message, but that does not make it any less a valid point
Aye, 3 years too late to have any impact…
Wearying would be getting a sad attempt at a put down as reply from someone whose own comment shows they haven’t read it. Do try harder.
It’s about where the money came from and those people’s reasons.
That’s really sad. I hope you get over it eventually.
Question: who said this and what does it mean?
“Let’s start now to liberate the UK’s extraordinary bioscience sector from anti genetic modification rules and let’s develop the blight-resistant crops that will feed the world,”
And do you know what? I genuinely wouldn’t mind if the reaction were anything more than pointing in the general direction of the future and prognosticating endless doom.
We have genuinely got to the point where things are so partisan that any agreeing voice is acceptable, even Alistair Fucking Campbell.
There are no solid pro-EU arguments predicated on anything but fear or the perceived consensual bollock we presumably all give about “our economy”
I suppose what I’m saying is do something more productive than worry. Do something that is slightly better than just pointing out the obvious, such as Donald Trump and Boris Johnson might be cunts. It’s completely redundant. People already know this, and they don’t care.
Why? Because so-called progressives have done fuck all except call people names, provide remote, unsolicited and quite unscientific IQ tests or devalue pretty fucking important terms that should be better understood than they are now. Going around and calling any political opponent a fascist or a Nazi is not going to solve anything.
Wishing that the European Union is not the animal it is won’t solve anything either. The EU is still a supra-national democratic bypass, and has had elements of that in its makeup since it was formed.
It is truly fucking depressing that when handed back this sovereignty that in some cases, neither you or me have ever had, that people are fruitlessly fretting about what to do with it.
Because realism means foodbank queues increasing as the pound and productivity plummets - go preach your politics to those in the queues and tell them they are fliterin away their sovereignty and the ‘opportunity’ this represents
When you’ve more time to reflect perhaps you can tell us what the point of this post was.
Do you do self awareness?
It’s an observation. I’m not immune to it either. Worst cases are relatively easy to conjure within the framework of the European Union, especially after the EU Army is created.
There’s also nowt wrong with worst-casing in the abstract. I’d take that over forecasts or plans on a best case scenario in a professional environment. In politics, though? Fuck mate, that is entirely depressing.
It is supposed to be the art of the possible.
I’m also going to take exception to a debating style that seems to have re-emerged. @Map-Of-Tasmania, @Cobham-Saint and @Saint-or-sinner; could you please remember that I am not the Brexit stereotype you loathe and wank over in equal measure?
I’ve never gone on about blue passports, never been racist and have never been stupid.
What you’re doing, going out and finding the most clueless cunts that happened to vote the same way as me, then presenting them as representative of here is not a smart tactic. It’s a vile tactic. It’s a Tommy Robinson tactic.
He does exactly the same thing when he goes shopping around the world for the most extreme cultural and tribal practices and pretends its happening here.
People have gotten upset when I’ve pointed that out before.
I have no fucking idea.
What’s the racist Disney shit all about?
Ok. Think we need to step back and consider replying as it is just getting a bit pointless again.
I don’t agree with Pap’s view on Brexit. I am concerned about our future and don’t feel that it is going to be rosy. Always been a pessimistic person and working in local government doesn’t help. I do feel it’s better to work from within and that there has been good things from the EU.
I don’t see the point in calling each other trolls and being rude to each other.
What’s that saying about divide and conquer? Because Johnson is bringing in some worrying people into his cabinet and as advisors and we are going to have to fight all that crap too.
I think we have moved from reasoned to debate to the realm of general fuckwittery.
Is there a way to time out the thread ?
How is that reform from within accomplished?
I mean, just practically?
In practice, it would mean that both the Council of Ministers and the European Commission would need to propose legislation in this direction.
This body wrote its own Consitution in 2006 which enshrined policy making power in those two largely appointed bodies. It has travelled in a neo-liberal direction for 40 years.
The sad fact is that the person elected to the European Parliament to have the most influence in the future direction of Europe was Nigel Farage.
I ask again, how do citizens like you and me agitate for reform in the EU?
Yeah, exit the European Union 
There is a way to time out this thread. I’m just going to stop posting for a bit. If I wanted forum abuse, I’d get some decent shit over at TSW.