:brexit: Brexit - Deal or no deal

This shitstorm of a farce was inevitable the day after the referendum when our politicians from all serious parties decided to ignore their responsibility and the fact the referendum was advisory only/non-binding and collectively shit themselves and start spouting shit about ‘the will of the people’ - and fail to consider what was BEST for the people - what they had been elected to preserve as part of a representative democracy.

Coupled with their own political self interest, financial self interest or down right self preservation, it was alsways going to end this way… because fundamentally, no matter what justification might exist from a philosophical, political principle or personal perspective, they all know we will be worse off out of the EU economically for many years… yes we will trade and yes we will do deals with the US but the terms will be shit as we have no power in such negotiations… everyone will know our weakness and desperation… the poorest where sold a lie by Tory pigfuckers, will be the ones still queuing at food banks only there will be more of them… but hey as one proud Brexit voting pair of numpties told the BBC… ‘we can plant potatoes in our gardens… we did it before you know’…

But hey, it’s the ‘biggest bit of democracy eva, innit, so don’t mess with it man’… well People
Do stupid tbings, it’s their right I suppose, but would you just let someone jump off a cliff because they believe they can fly, or would you try and stop them?

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This ad was in the middle of that article.
17718754296074108951
I’m not having a dig at people’s preference, but that’s funny.

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Was it though? I don’t know the answer, but if it was based on population numbers, that’s misleading, as the population is much larger now than the last referendum. To be a correct claim i would assume it was the largest percentage of those able to vote ever seen. Is that the case?

Twas a bit Tongue in cheek SoS, because there are so many who are convinced democracy should be sacrosanct even if a) the result is stupid, b) the result was delivered through a very undemocratic campaign of lies and worse… it’s the easy cop out for politicians who are too frightened to tell the truth/ their own opinions

I asked because reading the article, it was again claimed
“the largest democratic mandate ever expressed in Britain”
and i can’t remember how this was worked out(it’s been 3 years and reams and reams of bullshit since the historic day). You’re quip just reminded me to ask, as selective use of numbers will give any result you like. Admittedly it would probably have been quicker to look it up, than write this :blush:

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Indeed, most of us leavers have been on about the ‘fuck you to 10 years austerity’ (as opposed to some deep seated disapproval of the EU) as the driver for Brexit for two years …

I think it’s fair to state the largest single vote with a clear indication / outcome, especially since our GEs are first past the post which means so many votes count for fuck all… yet our defenders of democracy seem happy with that status quo…,

But is it democracy when it’s based on so much bullshit?

It certainly should not be called the wiil of the people when it’s only representing 17mil out of 64mil

I suspect that had Remain campaigned to inform the electorate that the current shit the country was is in was down to Tory austerity as opposed to the EU (eg the truth) the result may have been different, but this where the problem lies… since their were so many self interested Tories on the Reamin side who weee never goi g to blame themselves for the shit… so democracy could never really prevail…

Sorry to be a pain, but largest what. Number of people, or percentage of those eligible?
I’m thinking referendum rather than election. 51% would suggest population size is the answer and that’s stupid, as you could claim every vote gets more democratic, purely because the population has grown.

Now I am confused :blush:

I think we have to accept the numbers based on eligibility rather than population as babies and children would not yet have the intellectual ability to understand the consequences of their actions… :crazy_face:

… but had say we allowed 16year olds to participate as they did in the Scottish ref, we would have most likely seen a different will of the people as the age stars showed the younger voters were 2-1 in favour of remain…, we should really have let them decide since it’s their future …

And, tbh, 16 year old Brits do seem to be more mature than the political classes

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Meanwhile, there’s a thread featuring the nineteenth consecutive week of state violence against French citizens.

@Map-Of-Tasmania is correct. We’ve got so much new information to consider :smiley:

But this is flawed @Map-Of-Tasmania, I’ve pointed out before that had the youth been bothered to vote, and by youth I mean under 25s, then the result would have been the other way.

The youth, however, didn’t bother to haul their arses down to the polling stations to make a difference.

So would giving the vote to 16 year olds have made a difference, might have made it closer

I got this data from here

The source for the referendum’s supposed turnout data is Sky Data, which tweeted this out today:

% who got through our final #EUref poll turnout filter by age group:

18-24: 36%
25-34: 58%
35-44: 72%
45-54: 75%
55-64: 81%
65+: 83%

— Sky Data (@SkyData) June 25, 2016

Sky isn’t claiming this is collected data - it’s projected, and a subsequent tweet said it was based on “9+/10 certainty to vote, usually/always votes, voted/ineligible at GE2015”. I’ve asked for more information on what this means, but for now it’s enough to say it’s nothing more than a guess. Others have tried to extrapolate turnout data from an Ashcroft poll, but again, approach with caution: the poll wasn’t designed to measure age turnout, so won’t have been weighted accordingly.

Graphics from the BBC and FT show that areas with younger populations generally had lower turnout, but that’s the closest we have to hard-and-fast data on youth turnout.

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I’m probably doomed. I called someone out on Twitter for typing something untrue about that Brexit March thing.
The world doesn’t give a shit, they’ve already decided both sides are all batshit crazy

What happens if the vote is 52/48 the other and it could be, you’d respect that then wouldn’t you?

TBH, I would expect any referendum to require 65% + as they do in Switzerland… but then again the decision should NEVER have gone to referendum, and certainly not after 10 years of austerity where the ‘people’ are blaming the EU for our UK Government incompetence…

That doesn’t answer my question.

It was not the number Barry… it was the complete lack of respect for any truth in the campaigns… that is not ‘democratic’, that Pie piece says it all… the way folks voted because of austerity, through in a bit of ‘immigration’ and a bunch of oldies still stuck in a sad belief that we should be 'Great Britain, telling everyone else what to do as we did in our empire days… its why we never liked having to listen to anyone else, let alone Brussels… surprised our arch brexiteer posted it considering its perspective pisses on the idea that ‘the people’ voted as they did through deep seated ideological opposition to the EU…

Still doesn’t answer the question, they’re your reasons which are fine but that doesn’t answer the question.
I am honestly amazed at the shock and incredulity being shown by remainers who are surprised at politicians lying and campaigning on half truths.
Brass neck is a word for it.

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Its not shock its simply disgust… we can change government every 4-5 years, so a few porkies /BS over manifesto are accepted… this is much bigger, more far reaching, and the ‘excuse’ the it was expected by brexiteers does not make it right… its shitty deceitful and undemocratic so whenever I hear folks using the ‘democracy’ cry to challenge those who want to overturn the result, I have to ‘laugh’ at their brass neck…which IS the word for it.

To answer your question, had the result been such a slim margin the other way I would have been very worried… because it would have meant as we have seen, that too many believe in bunch of shite spouted by a bunch of self serving cunts that the EU was responsible for the shit life they have… when it was 10 years of Tory shite… the vey people advocating leave…