Did we get asked if we’d like to throw into the Lisbon Treaty, the latest form of the European Union?
If you’re concerned about not being asked, you should be concerned about not being asked at ceding such power to an unaccountable organisation in the first place, not public participation in Cameron’s begging bowl list of things we wanted back.
What reforms would you have asked for?
As you know, I don’t see it the same way as you.
You don’t see it the same way as Tony Benn either.
The European Union falls way short on all his questions about power, not least the closing one, “how do we get rid of you?”.
As I have said before
The British public did not vote to join a European union they accepted a Common Market trade deal .
That was it.
Nothing fucking else.
The rules change and they give the public the vote:
Public says fuck the EU we dont want you and never voted you in charge.
So why are we already not out???
Very simple… because probably an even greater percentage of the British public than 17 mil would vote to bring back the death penalty… does not make it right, nor does it mean our elected representatives should act upon it. We have a representative democracy because we acknowledge that sometimes its best left to those who have a broader and deeper knowledge of these things…and even the hardest of Brexiteers in Government know that there is going to be a huge economic challenge ahead by leaving, even with a deal. Its why many of them have been busy shifting their business and finances to the Republic of Ireland and getting themselves citizenship of other EU countries.
The actual number of British people who voted as they did and would do so regardless of the implications is less certain and will be much less than 17mil… many will have voted with hearts rather than minds, believing sad imperialistic rhetoric and NHS windfalls and how much better off the poor will be once we have gotten rid a of a few Bulgarian waitresses… These situations need an intelligent, pragmatism, not knee jerk reactions to 10 years of austerity… This is the same British people who despite 3.5mil unemployed, and wholesale fucking of communities, voted Thatcher back in on a post Falklands war jingoistic fever… so forgiven me if I don’t bow down in front of the British people merely because of some tokenism towards the ‘will of the people’…
The EU is flawed and needs reforming, but the ideals of unification of certain services and finances is not ‘wrong’ merely because Tony Benn says so, that is his opinion and he is entitled to it, but its is of no greater validity than this those that see better futures in further unity… add to that the irony that we will most likely have to let the US dictate terms and conditions to us for certain deals and the whole thing looks an even bigger farce
You’re grossly misrepresenting the questions Benn asked. For clarity they are:-
Benn says nothing about the unification of certain services. He’s asking five questions, and the European Union cannot provide answers that would be acceptable to any democrat.
We tried to reform it, they wouldn’t have it.
Their great argument and defence is admittance that it (the EU) needs reforming and then doing fuck all about it, its like companies say when there is a new board they’ll listen to staff and managers and fuck all changes other than new layers of managers and bureaucracy are put in place to protect themselves, like mp’s can not be trusted in this Country, they can not be trusted to reform.
So neither of you have EVER addressed the the following:
The principle of referenda - should we accept them even when wrong - e.g., death penalty? ( this is the question Pap that you have ignored and refused to answer over last 2 years…)
should we trust an electorate that seem happy vote emotionally (see above re Thatch and Falklands) after 10 years of austerity? (of course they voted for Brexit so I suspect you will agree… GOTCHA!)
Can you just answer Benn’s five questions please?
This is me, pretending to be the EU.
Unelected control over 28 member states, incorporating food supply, taxation, national borders, a good deal of the banking system, the entire market of goods and services. The powers are extraordinary, and include overriding the democratic mandate in individual nation states, the installation of more compliant technocrat administrators and coming soon, the ability to raise an army comprised of the working class of national states, sent off to do the foreign policy work of this unelected executive.
We also have considerable powers to keep people from leaving.
French and German industrial elites, the former being frightened of another German invasion, the latter having finally found a panzer free way to dominate the continent. See also, compromised heads of state for future accessions, such as Ted Heath in1973, who knew that our level of involvement would always be far greater than advertised in the 1971 manifesto.
French and German elites, although we’ll bend over for the US on demand (see Ukraine).
Technically, no-one. Except the French and German elites. They made us jump pretty quickly when their elite banking sector was in the shit. We transferred the liabilities to Greece and made poor people pay for them.
Ask the British.
So, did that rule out no deal amendment actually put the whole process into limbo?
Seems that tgere has been a change in the position over the last week in getting something to tweak the backstop time limit.
And May has nothing new to take to Parliament.
Lots of articles on this subject again when you have your hands tied the EU just sat there and said fvck off.
Heaven knows where that leaves the mess. Can’t no deal and EU won’t move.
Another clusterfuck
BBC News - Brexit talks deadlocked day before Commons vote on May’s deal
Strip him of his Citizenship. Seems to be the current sentence for Treason
Sometimes Phil you have the best ideas 
OK, I will answer yours after posing them 1 day ago… despite the fact your continue to ignore mine after 2 years… but that provides an answer all by itself
My argumentation below is based on MY opinion, and not some heavy reading or research as from what i Have read, is that there is equal measure of expert input with both positive and negative opinion on then EU…
What Power have they got?
The 28 member states have AGREED to the current situation as their governments see the value in having a joint policy on those areas… with members having had the power of veto as we have shown in the past. When several brexiteers were asked about which EU pieces go legislation they would change, they could not come up with one… preferring to argue as you do that where the legislation is made is more important than WAY legislation is made… which i disagree with…
Where did they get it?
I think you need you grow the fuck up and stop with the panzer divisions nonsense, as it it makes you look like a bigoted and trolling clown
The member states have successively voted for it… as you know. You feel they are driven by industrial might… fair enough, but show me any government that is is not? Show me any industrialised country that does not have to make political compromise to maintain a stronger economic position? Not liking it is fine, but to ignore the practical realities is student politics
Whose interests?
Do you really believe 28 countries would sign up if they dod not get a positive benefit from it? seriously? maybe they are all worried about the Germans invading to? No they are grown up Governments that recognise the advantages outweigh the compromises
Accountable?
To the citizens of the member states who as Brexit shows, have the power should they feel the deal is not for them - as mentioned, you think Corbyn won’t be compromising with big industrial might should he ever be lucky enough to win an election?
How are they voted out?
By leaving the EU. One better reform would be to transition power from commission to MEPs, with certain caveats - after all the biggest problem with politics is the inability to implement long term projects due to them becoming a battle ground for political parties… which is teh whole point of the EU
So will you answer my question? Wy do I feel it is relevant? very simply because to Respect a result. you have to respect the correct process was applied. As we have a representative democracy, we elected our MPs to makes difficult decisions on our behalf… we should expect them to THINK and act in accordance to what is right, not just blindly follow whatever the public believe is right this week… so tell me, would you expect MPs to allow a referedum on the death penalty and implement the outcome no mater what?
Just send him back to scotland and not allow him in England Wales or NI
As I said, @Map-Of-Tasmania. No answers can be provided that a democrat would find acceptable.
You didn’t give any real answers, did you?
In your first answer, you acknowledge that it is the governments of the member states that took us in. What did that comprise of at the start? Same thing it does now. French and German elites. The French public voted the EU down the last time they were asked, and have never been asked again. The Germans don’t do referenda.
In your second answer, you take offence at the Panzers comment. I am sorry mate, but the Germans have been the most aggressive aggressor state the continent has seen in the past century. A war every few decades until it had all its armament stripped from it. Tens of millions dead. I simply cannot overstate it and it cannot be overlooked, especially when we’ve seen the German-led ECB create an economic famine in Greece.
That was a perfect answer to question #3, concerning which interests they serve.
The EU is basically accountable to its own elites, not the people they rule over. Moreover, it tried and failed to enshrine the Commission as a permanent unelected executive. It then used undemocratic imposition via the Lisbon Treaty to get what it wanted regardless.
Finally, we’re still not out, and the EU has not let us out without first jeopardising a 20 year old peace process after a preceding forty years of terrorist incidents, extra-judicial paramilitaries and the like.
The EU fails all five questions, and for all your talk of vetos, ask Ireland how that’s working out for them.
… still waiting.
You missed the bit where there bombed your chip shop…
When did 2 wars the last 70 years ago become ‘every few decades’? you obviously live in paranoid fear of being invaded by Germans and need to get out more… get over to Europe and sit in a few more cafes and enjoy the lifestyle, easy going cultures …
Also since the last German war, please list the conflicts we have been involved with…
Finally, answer my question.
The first one wasn’t started by the Germans, but the continents biggest mass murderers(you can include this century and the two before last as well). @pap did word it carefully, but everyone has seen us and our history unfortunately.
It’s all very much like how America does it now.