Of course I don’t. I’d like them out as soon as possible. I think their tenure has been extended by the political energy wasted on contesting a vote won two and a half years ago.
Ok, but knowing a no deal will hand them the chance to do this, which they’ll gleefully take, you still want a no deal?
That’s too much for too little.
Trade deals can be ended unilaterally. Even if Fox does get a dirty deal in place with the US, we can walk away.
On a more general note, I’m not abandoning points of political principle because of what the Conservatives might do.
If there is no deal, can I claim asylum in Poland?
Yes. Tell them you’re Napoleon. They’ll probably play along with the claim part too.
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Can we though. There’s the off shore tribunals, for trade deals and many a government has lost billions because of them(never a big business, as far as i remember). Renege on them and be forced to pay all projected profits(yes, projected. No reality involved) for the length of the contract.
Then you have to consider the reality of trying to put back together things like the NHS. Hell of a gamble.
Thanks(but that’s an open goal for some), this was what confused me. How far would you be prepared to go to leave. Is the complete lose of the NHS not a red line for you?
Remember, we will need the NHS more than ever, when the poor are financially forced to eat shit that wouldn’t be considered fit for animals, or even a compost heap now(that’s despite Cameron already stripping regulations). That’d kind of prove our complete vassalage to the most murderous(home and abroad) nation on earth(that is in it’s death throes, just as we join up).
Put the fucking thing on hold and have an election, then and only then(depending on the result) would it be anything other than suicidal for all but the few.
Despite how that may read, i’m not dismissing the whole idea, it could work, but not when our ‘team’ can’t even remember to bring a pen 
I don’t get your reasoning. I do not see how a no deal Brexit leads to a complete loss of the NHS, particularly in the political context of the day. This is a minority government which is seemingly incapable of getting its business through Parliament. This is an utterly discredited Prime Minister who’s never had a good political idea in her life, least of all becoming Prime Minister.
You are treating a whole case of worst case scenarios as if they’ve already happened. I do not see the situation as grimly as you seem to. We have a collection of posters from outside the EU that must be scratching their heads at comments like this, wondering just how the fuck it is that leaving the European Union without a deal means complete capitulation to American financial interests and the wholesale firesale of the National Health Service to American health interests.
It is nothing more than fearmongering. Further, even if your worst case scenario came true, and bits of the NHS fell into American hands, how would that situation make it much different from what we have today?
There are large parts of the NHS already in private hands. There are huge parts of the social care sector in private hands, and there have been for decades. If you really believe it’s going to be the Americans who are going to be the first villains to exploit the sick and needy, take a look at all the exposes over the years where private, largely unregulated firms have beaten the fuck out of pensioners or gone bust, leaving residents homeless, or disfigured cosmetic surgery patients.
The government can sell off as much of the NHS as it wants under current guidance. What it can’t do, and will never be able to do, is to pass legislation that would see the free at the point of entry aspect of it end.
You remember the power Fox has been given? Which makes minority government irrelevant and May is an idiot put in place because she’s good at one thing. Getting nothing done.
Look at what has been done over the last 2 years.
Yes i am looking at a worse case scenario, because everything that has been done points to it.
Where’s your red line?
Just a point of order from outside the EU.
Britain will not surrender to American Corporate interests post Brexit.
They and the entire planet did that decades ago.
Carry on.
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Is this for real?
Someone shared this sometime ago…
26 points for the Remainers to answer…
#CantArgueWithFacts
Summary of The Lisbon Treaty that was originally Voted Down so they had another Vote till they got the result the Globalists wanted.
BEWARE! If we were to stay in the EU, we would be subject to the LISBON TREATY which comes into force next year.
If anyone thinks a NO DEAL is bad for the UK then just check this out…
LISBON TREATY
1: The UK along with all existing members of the EU lose their abstention veto in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon Treaty when the system changes to that of majority acceptance with no abstentions or veto’s being allowed.
2: All member nations will become states of the new federal nation of the EU by 2022 as clearly laid out in the Lisbon treaty with no exceptions or veto’s.
3: All member states must adopt the Euro by 2022 and any new member state must do so within 2 years of joining the EU as laid down in the Lisbon treaty.
4: The London stock exchange will move to Frankfurt in 2020 and be integrated into the EU stock exchange resulting in a loss of 200,000 plus jobs in the UK because of the relocation. (This has already been pre-agreed and is only on a holding pattern due to the Brexit negotiations, which if Brexit does happen, the move is fully cancelled - but if not and the UK remains a member it’s full steam ahead for the move.)
5: The EU Parliament and ECJ become supreme over all legislative bodies of the UK.
6: The UK will adopt 100% of whatever the EU Parliament and ECJ lays down without any means of abstention or veto, negating the need for the UK to have the Lords or even the Commons as we know it today.
7: The UK will NOT be able to make its own trade deals.
8: The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade tariffs.
9 The UK will NOT be able to set its own trade quotas.
10: The UK loses control of its fishing rights
11: The UK loses control of its oil and gas rights
12: The UK loses control of its borders and enters the Schengen region by 2022 - as clearly laid down in the Lisbon treaty
13: The UK loses control of its planning legislation
14: The UK loses control of its armed forces including its nuclear deterrent
15: The UK loses full control of its taxation policy
16: The UK loses the ability to create its own laws and to implement them
17: The UK loses its standing in the Commonwealths
18: The UK loses control of any provinces or affiliated nations e.g.: Falklands, Cayman Islands, Gibraltar etc
19: The UK loses control of its judicial system
20: The UK loses control of its international policy
21: The UK loses full control of its national policy
22: The UK loses its right to call itself a nation in its own right.
23: The UK loses control of its space exploration program
24: The UK loses control of its Aviation and Sea lane jurisdiction
25: The UK loses its rebate in 2020 as laid down in the Lisbon treaty
26: The UK’s contribution to the EU is set to increase by an average of 1.2bn pa and by 2.3bn pa by 2020.
This is the future that the youths of today think we stole from them?
They should be on their knees thanking us for saving them from being turned into Orwellian automatons!
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This Telegraph article from back in the day seems to confirm loss of veto power, Phil.
I’ll start fact-checking that list further.
Would that be the Lisbon Treaty that came into effect in 2009? I suspect that ‘list’ is a classic case of ‘you can find what you want to find on the intetnet’
The Telegraph article is also from 2009 and no mention of all those ‘facts’… I could be wrong, but when search for Lisbon Treaty, I did not see such a list on any official summaries. Might have been looking in wrong places mind.
I think this is reflective of the kind of ‘information’ that has been floating around since before the ref and why I Continue to ask whether democracy was truely served by that process…
Put some effort in, please. I’m off around the Internet trying to find corroboration with those points.
As someone that puts the word information in quotes, it’s surely your duty to do the opposite.
Uhm… so did you read it and would you say the headline reflects the article??? (Article from 2014)
All NEW member states must joint the EUro by 2020 and its still an open question whether the the UK and Denmark and other members would be able to stay outside ‘after about 2020’
Again nothing concrete - suggest you put more effort in
Anyway, why is it my ‘duty? As you keep pointing out, what does it matter if such stuff was floating about… democracy. Innit
I’m checking further, Map, even if it means reading the Lisbon Treaty itself.
None of it should come as a surprise though. The ever compliant Irish have just got a shock of their lives after being told they won’t be able to veto tax harmonisation laws.
Some very interesting stuff on pages 283. It would appear that the agreement states that the UK is not obliged to join the Euro unless a government of the day asks to join.
Even more interesting is what happens when a country does decide to join the Euro.
(b) The Bank of England shall pay up its subscribed capital, transfer to the ECB
foreign reserve assets and contribute to its reserves on the same basis as the national
central bank of a Member State whose derogation has been abrogated.
So all those countries already in the Eurozone signed over their national treasure as the cost of entry. Fucksake.
What I find odd is that folks use this as stick to beat the EU with… EVERYONE should know it has longer term plan to harmonise financial and many legislative structures to enable the Euro to be stronger and more stable. In addition , the desire to establish a more stable economy in all member states requiring harsher rules and penalties… it’s the purpose of economic union… what is most surprising is that anyone is actually still surprised by that!
The fundemental question is not what the EU is planning but about about whether it is better for the UK to be part of it or not.
The initial reaction of most is to be appalled, whether due to their ideas of the sanctity of sovereignty or against a globallized and integrated economy.
But… there are good arguments that support both which I am not going to go back over again here, as it’s not the question of the thread… It was just strange to see what is pretty much the overall aim of the EU being used as a ‘shock tactic’…
Are you in favour of joining the Euro, with the provisions outlined above?