‘Panzers in Paris’, ‘The Weimar Republic’, FFS! We will be entering 2021 in three weeks, not 1941. Get a grip.
So.
No deal.
Macron’s fishermen.
Jan 1st. Do we arm the fishing fleet in Brixham? Maybe the Queen Elizabeth can fly her Tempests to blow up those pesky Scallop munches (lol at EU serving Scallops & Halibut to Boris last night)
Navy cant keep starving migrants in rubber shingles out.
How will they stop the fish stocks being raped?
Well, the EU is starting to blink but it’s one big red line appears to be the so called level playing field.
It’s basically more of the same protectionism. Now I’m not one to yearn for a Singapore style economy, which is why state aid is such a bloody important tool.
Without enough of it, key industries either go under or get sold to those that can afford to buy them. Imagine saying “yeah, steel is important. We want to keep steel” and not having to go cap-in-hand to whichever firm that fancies asset stripping it.
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Classic example is Rolls Royce Aero Engines.
Insane development costs (similar to Pharma) then big profits.
State Aid has a roll but maybe more loan guarantee based
You do tend to try and over simplify these complex arguments don’t you, whether is Panzers in Paris, or here making the ‘level playing field’ all about one sides ‘protectionism’
You do realise dont you that Any trade deal has an element of this? It’s the whole point of a free trade agreement if you want to include all goods, no one is going to sign up without guarantees you are not fucking up their own industry through unfair competition…
… we are talking about things WE should be signed up to, health and safety, employee rights, environmental standards, packing and safety standards and materials that are used… rather than having free reign to make stuff as cheap as possible for export. It would also be reciprocal, with EU member states doing the same so where is you real beef here?
We are still free to export stuff that does not meet EU standards to other places or use the food ourselves if our consumers are that patriotic and don’t give a shit (Gove did say we Would be in a new era consuming our own goods… the only truthful thing he has said, as for many it will be all they can get or afford)
Seems to me that you simply don’t like Johnny Foreigner (Panzers drivers especially) telling us the standards of goods they will or will not accept from us, when we want to make them cheaper through exploiting our own workforce or environment?)
But hey, if it fuck an EU member states Industry they should Just accept that?
I am Sure you will be applying the same Principles to any US trade negotiation to ensure all food standards meet our current ones to avoid our farmers going under?
Alas Most likely when our Brexit Government Simply lowers our own standards to enable Our farmers to compete, you will default back to your usual gripe and suggest it’s not Brexit but the remain voters who are at fault for letting the TORIES in…
Remoaners 
must be responsible for COVID to, what with all their freedom of movement…
That’s a laugh. I don’t think anyone in Europe has argued without smirking that the CAP has allowed for anything even approaching fair competition since it’s inception.
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It wouldn’t be reciprocal - what is being proposed is that we adhere to EU rules not vice versa
If we decided to increase animal welfare rights over and above the current EU rules, the EU are not suggesting that they follow. They want to set the rules and we follow.
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You’re quite correct. One of my great professional skills is simplification, explaining complex matters in terms lay-people can understand.
It also underpins my coding. I’m constantly asking what something actually does, and whether it needs to do all of that to achieve the same outcome.
It’s also handy for forum posts, because my outbursts are short and simple enough to be read.
Apart from the disingenuous comment about the “oven ready deal” which I believe many people took to mean the trade deal, there were also many ministers happy to trot out the line that any future trade deal would be a walk in the park, which it clearly was never going to be. We now have people using the term “Australia deal” which is another disingenuous attempt to show that we will have “something” when, in fact, it means no deal.
As with Covid, there is and has never been a long term plan, just a load of short term reactionary actions.
I feel gutted for my kids. Eventually I am sure the UK will struggle back to its feet, but the combination of Brexit, Covid and the most useless PM and cabinet in my lifetime has shafted us for the next decade.
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I assume your kids can’t be that different age-wise to myself.
Personally, I worry for my kids, and kids of their age.
It is fact that the EU would not negotiate any subsequent trade deal until the UK had left the EU. We left the EU under the WA which is wasn’t in place at the time of the election. Johnson said he’d get done what May failed to do, and he did albeit with a large slice of shitehousery and false promise.
It is obvious to anyone with half a brain who had followed the Brexit process, that any trade deal was off the table until after Jan 2020 and anyone foolish enough to interpret what he said as being about a trade deal needs to have a word. Unfortunately, there are plenty out there who did, although it wasn’t difficult to appear anything other than decisive against a meek and pathetic Corbyn. All he had to say was he had the WA under control.
Of course, he’s a liar and a charlatan. But that’s not the point. The point is he didn’t mean a trade deal and it’s bloody obvious he didn’t. We kind of agree as it goes, it just happened that the blinded Johnson shaggers and gullible were so large in number they got the cunt into no 10!
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Back in 2019? Before we were even out?
Doubtful.
2019 is not that long ago. By time the election rolled around, Theresa May had tried and failed to get her bill through Parliament three times.
At the same time, the Remainers were still bleating on about second referendums and revocation. The public was fucking weary.
I can’t claim to know their minds, but it seems ridiculous that they would have their eyes on the second hurdle when, at the time, the first was proving impossible to get over.
Typical Remainer revisionism, in other words.
Doesn’t everyone except sociopaths?
Leaving the EU isn’t the thing that darkened all their futures, and when you think about the problems the young have, it’s arguable that EU membership has exacerbated them.
Key considerations for youngsters are:-
Education and training
The EU cannot be blamed for our decision to turn higher education into an earner. However, the arrival of many “oven-ready” skilled labourers from elsewhere saw companies slash training and apprenticeships for years, the latter requiring government intervention.
Employment
Employment prospects are worse for youngsters under the EU. They’re not competing with a country. They’re competing with a continent in which we’re a particularly attractive destination. After the Eastern European states joined, wage growth in the UK reached the lowest it had for 150 years.
Secure and affordable housing
Housing. Another supply and demand issue. We didn’t have a great supply of housing before the enlargement, and you can’t blame the EU for that. However, the policy of Freedom of Movement meant that more people were demanding that limited supply. Cue people at their parents until they’re 30.
So…
What is you worried about, @WorzelScummage and @sadoldgit?
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Er… I am merely suggesting that the future behaviour of our own Government will be exactly what we criticising the EU of insisting on…
So nothing that has actually happened, then.
This is a bit like the screaming of international law breaking during the Internal Market bill.
Prosecuting crimes before they’re committed!
The vocal minority report 
You are confusing offering simpler explanations with oversimplification - they are not the same thing, which I am surprised someone with your great professional skills can not see…
Not really.
Oversimplification is almost as bad as blinding people with science.
In computer software, it typically gets them imagining how something works instead of having a good grasp of how it works.
Given the bullshit spouted about the wonders of Brexit and the future utopia unshackled by johnny foreigner by those encouraging folks to vote for it, I might humbly suggest its not unreasonable to make similar forecasts on what Brexit will enable our Government to do…
Ooh love the cliche, ‘blinding with science’ almost as good as ‘I think we have had enough of experts’
We are not talking about software, where the only real need to understand HOW it works is if you need develop it… we are talking about people who should have a better grasp of the implications of what they are voting for, as opposed to an ‘over simplistic’ view that fails to inform on the benefits and risks of each outcome… you seem to have taken your lead from Gove and believe nuance and richer insight were not needed…
We’ve got Brexiters here. I don’t think we have any sunlit uplanders, so I don’t really get why you feel you need to argue here about points made elsewhere.
If you’re doing straw men, can you sort me out a Worzel Gummidge?