:brexit: Brexit - Deal or no deal

This is just up the road from me. It was pushed through without proper local consultation which upset a lot of people, but the location was also a surprise given that it was on a water plain.

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:man_facepalming:

The many responses to that Tweet are worth a read :joy:

There is certainly a proportion of the British electorate that is passionate about EU membership. It’s not 48%. I think it is easy to forget in 2020 that there was a gigantic Project Fear campaign going on in 2016. There was a whole sub-strata of Remain voter, the reluctant Remainer, that were most affected by this. I don’t think you can describe that section of the vote as passionate.

I’ll be generous, and say that I reckon about a third of the country are passionate about EU membership. It’s probably more like 25%.

Have they got flood permits?

Don’t panic Captain Mainwaring

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Fucking shocking, but let’s try to remember that this isn’t Brexit. This is a third-string Tory government trying to do it, which might not be had Labour decided it wanted to.

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Don’t worry, I lay the blame fully at the door of Johnson and his cabinet of incompetence (& advisors)

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Fuckers were given an open goal at the election. The country had just been three and a half years of political paralysis. With Cummings, Johnson had the same three word rhetoric that was so successful in the referendum.

It’s water under the bridge now, so I don’t want to row about it, but I will not be swerved in my view that Remainers of all profiles, whether on social media or in Parliament, gifted Johnson and cronies this election.

Those in Parliament gave the impression that Parliament was never going to work again. Those on social media made a lot of comments that probably made them feel better about themselves, but did nothing to change minds.

I’m a peculiar sort. At 18, I stood up in a lecture hall of 240 people and basically told my lecturer was talking shit, because he was. So when people call me Tory, I just say “fuck off, I’m not”.

I think a lot of people confronted with that sort of shit just voted Tory.

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Or possibly they just voted “Leave” because they’d already been ignored twice.

Yeah, but equally, it’s the old give a dog a bad name thing. Some of those dogs eventually warrant it when they never would had they not been treated like such.

My only fear is that after we have left that the whole thing goes pear shaped. The thought of Labour getting in scares me as they just might think of reversing the play and rejoining. That thought simply petrifies means it would never be the same as it was. Any power in votes for example will never be reallowed.

No they won’t. The lib dems certainly would, but their stance on Europe has rendered them unelectable for the foreseeable future. Starmer is many things, a lot of them unsavoury, but he’s not an idiot.

Maybe not but the question is, if Labour do as badly again after a poor post Brexit will he stay leader?

I guess the bigger question and I have no answer to this but, is there any party that can deliver us from the car-crash of a Government we have at the moment?

On present showing, I’d say no.

It scares the fuck out of me.

image

Especially once the current government’s incompetence and the impending No Deal Catastrophe breaks up the Union.

Labour are the only other party that’s been electable since 1922 and in recent history that’s only been because of Scottish seats - once Scotland breaks away it’s the Tories forever in rUK…

I’m really not sure why people think No Deal, of all things, is going to be the catastrophe. Right now, it’s the only deal I’d take, because frankly, at no time has the EU offered any kind of deal compatible with the idea of Brexit.

Even the present sticking points are all about the EU maintaining some form of control.

Now this government goes at some point in the near future come what may, by the power of the British voter and whatever party internal machinations oust leaders these days. It will continue to fuck things up whilst its in power, but can be voted out.

That is not true of the deal the EU wants. It’s one way and it’s forever, and if we’re all honest, the EU has fucked a lot of things up in the past 20 years, including:-

  1. Enlargement of “native” territory to encompass former Soviet satellites. This not only created the enormous wage differences that saw skilled workers rush to rich countries to do unskilled minimum wage jobs, but it has also destabilised the long term viability of the project as nationalist hold outs like Hungary rail against values it doesn’t share.

  2. Creation of the Eurozone. Hacked together, comprised of a lot of countries that couldn’t afford it, knew they couldn’t afford it and have suffered massively since. Greece would be the poster child here. Denies cash strapped countries the usual mechanisms of devaluation, exacerbating and communalising crises.

  3. The debacle over the European Constitution. Put to French and Dutch electorates, which both voted NO. Instead of amending the Constitution to make it more palatable, the EU instead redrafted it as the Lisbon Treaty and no-one but the Irish got to vote on it. When they got it “wrong”, they were made to vote again until they got it right.

  4. Brexit negotiations. It’s not just the inflexibility or the attitude. It was that the future of Northern Ireland was put at risk by the EU to aid its negotiating position. You are probably too young to remember the worst of the Troubles, but they were not a great deal of fun here, even less so for the people that lived there. Raking all this up for political advantage was a fucking disgusting move.

To provide a little balance here are a few differing opinions

https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-disadvantages-of-leaving-the-European-Union-for-United-Kingdom

Each of those points.

  1. The UK loses a big market

The only way it does that is if the EU closes the market. That is unlikely, given that the EU sells more to us than we do to them. Self harming. Also doesn’t mention the fact that new markets have opened up to us.

  1. The UK loses influence.

Of course this is true within the EU. If you’re not a member you can’t influence EU policy. It’s also true we’ll be a rule taker if we take any kind of deal. No deal allows us to create our own trade arrangements, which is considerably more influence on the world stage than we’ve had before.

  1. Members outside the EU will prefer to do business with 500m EU than 70m UK.

This is just nonsense. Firms will sell to whomever will buy. Is the authoer seriously suggesting that if a Canadian firm had a solid sales lead in the UK, they’d say, nah, we’ll wait until the French want it. Conversely, if there’s something they can only buy from the UK, will they say “nah, we’ll wait until the French make it?”

Fucking bollocks point. Who is this guy?

  1. The UK will be squeezed between commercial super powers like China and the USA

It is already. As is every other country in the world that doesn’t have China’s economy or the US’ military. Why is this a “consequence of Brexit?”.

    • The big motivation for voting Brexit was for many British people that they didn’t want to have Polish workers doing the jobs in the UK any longer. Guess what: If the Polish people are not allowed to work in the UK, then British people are no longer allowed to work in the EU! The citizens in the EU will not accept anything less.

Fucking hell. This bloke is good. First of all he manages to impute an anti-Polish agenda. Then he makes the false claim that British workers will not be able to work in the EU. That is nonsense. British unskilled workers will not be able to work in the EU, and let’s be honest, there was never a big queue of British expats looking to work in the Riga LIDL (yes, I know that’s Latvia).

  1. London is right now a powerful financial centre internationally - but this situation will change with Brexit

Utter bollocks. A lot of German long term industry projects are financed out of London. They will continue to be.

Nothing changes the fact that London is the bridge over the Atlantic.

    • As long as the UK was member of the EU, it had a priviliged position within the EU compared with other EU members. Once the British realize that they made the wrong decision with Brexit and ask to return to the EU, the UK will become an ordinary EU member without priviliges.

Predicated on the utter fantasy that we’ll be rejoining and that the EU will still exist. This guy is mental.

  1. the UK is contributing to the destabilization of Europe and increasing the risk of a new world war

American? This point is crap too. Britain won’t have any involvement in the EU after its exit. If it falls apart, it’ll be because it was never a sensible arrangement in the first place and theremaining member states will be responsible.

  1. The Brexit will cause the UK to fall apart. First Scotland will leave the UK then Northern Ireland - and finally Wales.

Offered without qualification, substantiation or indeed, any working knowledge of British politics.

If anyone is leaving, it’s Northern Ireland, and perhaps it should. I am a supporter of a united Ireland. I hope that one day enough of the island feels comfy with the prospect.

Scotland signed up for a once in a generation referendum six years ago. Unless they’re banging out nippers at six wee Nicky can fuck off for another 12 years, more than enough time to assess how this went.

Also, will this prick make his mind up? We were rejoining for one of his other points.

    • Image loss: As a consequence of the Brexit people, who used to look up to and admire the British, will realize that they were wrong.

Jesus wept.

In conclusion

What you’ve posted here are the ramblings of a Danish bloke trying to speak authoritatively on British politics.

It doesn’t really address any of my points.

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