FFS, it was illustrative of the ridiculous and in some case offensive propaganda spouted by Brexit campaign and there was plenty it.
That old chestnut… an easy accusation to score a cheap point… NO I have very little regard for those who believed that shit, were influence d by bullshit over immigration and were convinced that there level of disenfranchisement was down to the EU and not 10 yeas of Tory austerity…
And they fucked up with a piss poor campaign - but that is the point, this should not have been about propaganda and ‘campiagns’, because it should never have been a 'political decision… it should have been about truth and facts…
How can I dispute the result? I have never disputed the result - that would mean questioning the numbers. Or the integrity of the voting system. I have not. I have continually asked questions about the impact of the campaign based on falsehoods, and how people already deep in poverty were convinced this was the EUs fault and not austerity and UK politics, and how they might believe this will now change
No it matters more to us. The trade balance is about 250bn each way - ours goes to 20+ countries, we import from 20+ so individual country exports to UK are much smaller per country than our combined exports… easier for those 20+ countries to absorb should no deal be brokered… we will go cap in hand to the US and take one willingly… we will have to. So much for ‘sovereignty’
That assumes that the bloc survives, which I suspect it may not, regardless of our leaving. That’s one of the reasons I’m fairly relaxed about us getting out, although I didn’t vote for us to leave.
I cant predict whether it will survive or not. I suspect it will as the Covid-19 economic bail out will ensure it maintains at least some cohesion.
If we look at history, we are in what is a typical ‘right wing/authoritarian’ political shift - it is common 6-8 years post global recessions, as the impact really continues to bite… its the ‘limit’ of what folks can put up with in terms or poverty and austerity and so the right with their philosophy of blame the weak, the minorities, the immigrants, everyone but themselves, for the shit, find fertile ground… its why we have seen this happen all over the EU… and the right naturally spout jingoistic nationalist bollocks - less easily dismissed when folks are looking to blame something for the shit they are in… This current cycle is no different. Its a time when countries tend to make BIG decisions against established principles, purely because its different, as opposed to logic or well thought out or factual/rational argumentation.
Ridiculous paranoia? No. We might not see such dreadful decisions as post previous big recessions, but it sets us back… can anyone say the geopolitical and the socio-economic consequences have improved our lives over the last 10 years?.. we have gone backwards to a meaner, more selfish, more insular society. Because just enough folks have shifted their perspective to make those attitudes the majority POV and therefore more acceptable… and it makes me fucking angry. Brexit, the campaign and the subsequent political shifts are a part of this.
I will make a bold statement, that enough folks voted brexit based on this shift to a ‘blame’ culture propagated by the right, to tip the balance. It was not some sudden political shift to the left and a Benn like aversion to the capitalist principles of the EU…
As a fan of this show, I think you’re doing a great disservice to Mr B’Stard. While he was a ruthless Tory bastard, he couldn’t really count on much support.
Piers was useless. Sarah was duplicitous and sleeping with half of Parliament and/or the Establishment.
And they were on his side!
Imagine what B’Stard could have done with the ammunition Boris had. People working for him that didn’t even realise they wore working for him.
Fuck experts, we’ve had enough of them! Jesus wept, we really are in the hands of some absolute tools. Incompetence personified. Hundreds of millions of pounds sloshing about, i bet there will be some nice ‘bonuses’ being handed out.
It is now time for the UK to roll over on whatever the EU wants on state aid, apparently.
Controlling levels of state aid is one of the big left wing reasons to get out of the EU. It’s an option for almost every country in the world, except the EU 27.
They really don’t get this independent lark, do they? Just another demand that is likely to make a deal impossible.
I think the EU are making mistakes in the way they’re playing this now tbh - they must know that the UK Government do not want to do a deal, so coming across as difficult is not a good look.
If they came out and said “we don’t want Gibraltar, we don’t want fishing rights, we only want half state aid etc” and gave a good deal, it would then put the pressure on the UK Governmentto accept, which makes their position very difficult.
A deal could easily be done I personally think, but I don’t think we want to do one.
The EU doesn’t want us to have a good deal. I’m not sure the average punter knows just how much of an existential threat Brexit is to the EU. Part of it involves the relatively huge size of our economy (as big as the EU’s 19 smallest countries put together).
After decades of one way traffic, Brexit became the first time a country said no and meant it. The EU has done itself no favours since the vote, throwing about demands and threats. There will be people from all 27 of those countries thinking “it could be us”.
All of the EU’s deals involve them retaining some degree of sovereignty over British life. They can fuck off.
As I said previously, Covid19 has actually helped the leave cause in my eyes - however flukey that was. I’m still upset to be leaving the EU, but as you say, us leaving with a good deal is a threat to the EUs continuation.
I think to a degree, because we are far less integrated through Shengen, Euro etc, that we can be seen as different by the other 27, but yes, countries will be sat there thinking about jumping from a potentially sinking ship…
Especially the southern areas in hock after the last financial crisis. You’ve got to wonder how Greece, Portugal and Spain would vote if they were offered referendums. (I didn’t mention the Italians, as I’m near certain they’d jump ship faster than a rat off the Titanic.)
I do not post Jeff Taylor that much, although I must admit I do enjoy his contributions. For the most part, Jeff relies on the facts, but every now and then, Jeff goes “full Jeff”, as he does here when discussing David Cameron.
I’m also not sure if Jeff is real, or if this is what John Thomson is doing these days.
