A majority wanted us out. A slim majority, but a majority nevertheless. The minority wouldn’t accept that, and obfuscated to the point of absurdity. Even if we’d held a second referendum, the result would almost certainly have been the same. That last election should never have been needed.
So no, blaming remain for the current government is not a cop out.
… sorry, again you miss the very obvious point… no remainers (or very few) votesd for this bunch of clowns) Brexiteers voted them in… a much more logical and accurate conclusion is that Brexiteers are responsible, given the definitions of democracy and all that…
There were a small number (with big impact given FPTP) that switched from their traditional voting patterns (I won’t say beliefs as anyone one who switched to these more extreme right wingers can not ever have been a true labour supporter) because they placed the lies of Brexit (fears on immigration, the EU being responsible for impact if the 10 years of austerity etc) ahead of how they normally voted. Given how easily they switched political ‘allegiance’ it would be impossible to to suggest they voted Brexit out of some deep rooted socialist principles)
Now that was their democratic choice, but you cannot blame other parties and other voters for staying true to their own principles and expecting the parties they followed to reflect that.
Yes Labours position was driven by confusion, but with 3/4 of their normal support being Remain, that was not surprising. The problem, if anything was that there was no Single party representing the remain vote… unlike UKIP standing down once the Tories declared for Brexit completely… Remainers and soft brexiteer voters were split…
So sorry, but blaming Remainers for these cunts IS a cop out. A Tory/right wing shift was inevitable the day the country voter Brexit… as many pointed out at the time,
Labour had the best shot at proper left-wing power with corbyn that they’d had since kinnock, so don’t give me that. The failure to quickly enact the referendum result caused three years of complete logjam in parliament, and now you’re complaining that we weren’t prepared for a pandemic, lmfao. And you’re the one missing the obvious point that had the vote been respected, boris wouldn’t have had a chance to run on a pro-brexit ticket in yet another election that simply shouldn’t have happened.
When you say Remainers, which Remainers?
Primarily, the ones in parliament who blocked every attempt at legislation to enact brexit.
Fwiw, I’m not trying to blame remainers in general for this or anything else, just responding to mot’s assertion that it’s all down to brexiteers, which struck me as patently ludicrous.
Not sure brexit was to blame for a rightward shift of the Tories. I would suggest that Labours leftward shift meant that the Tories no longer had to hover around the middle ground.
Now Starmer is in , I suspect Labour will head torwards the middle again and the Tories will follow to protect their position
Where have I said that? I merely stated that the Government are happy lying to us as they know they can get away with it… as proven by Cummings with his lies over Brexit and subsequent general election… YOU then suggested
I then countered - Remaina voters are not responsible for this government was my point
So why drag brexit into it in the first place? Isn’t it time you let go of that lost battle? And I’d argue that remain voters could be viewed as at least partly responsible for this government; as I pointed out earlier, Labour had a decent chance of election with Corbyn. The pointlessly prolonged brexit process scuppered that, and we were treated to yet another rerun of the question supposedly already settled by the referendum.
Incidentally, you mentioned that one of the problems in the last election was that no party ran on a clear unambiguous anti-brexit platform. That isn’t true. The lib dems did precisely that and got absolutely annihilated, even down to the defeat of their party leader.
Not necessarily the tories, they just followed the general population…
Because its an excellent example of how lies have contributed to the receptivity for more lies… its a valid and relevant example
First up, Corbyn was in no way a front runner even with a clear brexit position. Secondly, we need to address teh issue of ‘prolonged’ - This is the language of Cummings. he spun the time issue as a negative and seeded scare stories that if out too ages it would be an affront to democracy - Given the serious nature the consequences of getting this wrong, taking time to resolve it should have been a given. Time was wasted because of internal political fighting yes, but the time taken should never have been used as an issue - iT was by Brexiteers such as cummings as he played the ‘getting fed up’ card…
No i suggested that the remain vote was split… and it was. no one trusted the lib dems on anything given their history of cock sucking Tories, and the 'northern ‘socialists’ turned out to be anything but as we saw, again hoodwinked into believing Brexit was the solution to their poverty and woes…
Given COVID-19 and the economic challenges this will bring, would it not be wise for the Government to extend the transition period to make a deal possible and workable? We know Brexit is happening and we have been promised by the Government that they will do all they can to get a good deal with the EU, so why does ‘all we can’ not include and extension to the transition period, especially under such unforeseen circumstances?
Will a Brexiteer please explain how this would be a ‘betrayal’ or an affront to democracy? IF there is meant to be acceptance and moving forward to ensure Brexit works best for us ALL, why the need to risk a no deal during these critical times… it seems at best blinkered and at worst negligent and stupid.
Agreed. I don’t think an extension to ensure a deal can be done is against Brexit - especially considering the ease in which we should be able to conclude a deal (apparently).
You think that any of the hedge funds telling Boris what to do are concerned about being negligent?
They simply want to burn not invest. THEY DONT CARE about minions, only Millions
I suspect that our ‘Leaders’ will make a decision based on how they think the ‘people’ will take it… as opposed to what is best for the country longer term. Cummings will ‘read the mood’ and advise accordingly… then we will have Farage crawl out from under water rock he is currently fucked off to demand the Government keep its promise as he will be hedged up to his arse… ReesMoog wont care as his brines is now within the EU, and Suspect Boris and Gove are similarly protected… so what’s in it for us by insisting on current timetable… please Brexiteers explain
So UK voted for Brexit because of those pesky E European immigrants.
Voted for Boris to get it done.
And Boris does this?
Farage must be spinning in his grave… (he is dead politically)
That’s what people said immediately after the vote.
How well did that work out?
Don’t really get this; seems to be internally inconsistent. Nissan says Sunderland is at threat if any of its core markets are threatened. Nissan’s top 5 countries, by revenue, do not include an existing member of the EU.
The UK is its fifth biggest customer, consistently demonstrating better market share for Nissan than the rest of the continent.
How does one apply for Gupta’s job? 