Yep establishment wanted the opposite result for their shitty selfish gains… no one is arguing with that, But as we have seen and as was obvious, they still do OK regardless… as they mostly hedged for it
Oh and do think Boris, Farage, Gove Mogg are not establishment? lols
Secondly just because a load of rich establishment tossers want something does not mean its bad for everyone else… lots of ordinary people wanted to remain for different reasons… voting Brexit to stick it to the establishment was just stupid. Because they will remain unaffected… unlike many of the poorest who will suffer most with a shrinking economy… done to death and I know, dismissed as protect fear… and other such bollox, spread by arch cunt Cummings…
But pap missing the point about 3.1mil - 3 x as many LABOUR VOTERS appear to have wanted to remain than Brexit… You are right 3.1m voted Brexit and I feel for them… many will be unemployed, needing food banks because of inadequate benefits to feed their kids… and whilst undoubtedly The mechanisms of the EU have contributed… their impact has bene far more positive IMHO, especially when you consider the impact of 10 years of Tory austerity
sorry, but that 12.8 million ‘labour voters’ was actually the number that voted labour in the last general election which had a turn out of approx 55%… but its does not matter as when scaled to 75%, you have to apply to both arms.
eg. we assume that 40% of voters are typically labour voters as per last GE
40% of Referendum turnout would be approx 13.6 million labour voters… so we can argue that only 3.1 million out of 13.6 million labour voted Brexit, the rest must have voted Remain = only 22% of labour voters voted remain based on those figures… of course all sorts of variables in play, and this is an over simplification, but its not an unreasonable assumption that the vast majority of labour voters (not party activists) voted Remain… anyway even if it was only 51.4% would be a majority of them and teh will of the labour voting public init…
PS… (and in answer to Pap question) Dilemma for MPs is whether to go with constituency ref result or ‘local will’ which will have included many who will never vote for them anyway (eg. Tory brexiteers. Farage brexiteers, otehr right wingers etc…) in Labour seats… so a Labour constituency may well have voted Brexit, but only because a load of right wingers added to the small percentage of labour voters who did, meant a majority in that constituency… when it comes to GE, and its no longer a 2 horse race, things may well be different. as you saw The Torys did not get 408 seats Pap in the last GE
Anyone using the constituency map for Brexit v non brexit opinion is marking up the wrong tree… its just brexiteer propaganda
What is sad is that the referendum has become so politicised with respect to a GE, because it plays right into Tory hands… they have played the left politicians and voters so fucking well, its bordering on genius, if it was not so shitty. Just as Cummings has got everybody singing the same impatient mantra… ‘we want it done now’ - which means anyone who can get it done quickly is seen as a hero… as opposed to simply getting it done right… fucking idiocy…
And should be a completely separate issue from Brexit… as you know. What part of majority of Labour voters (not activists) appear to have voted remain do you not understand? I thought you were an advocate of democracy, so should accept a Labour position to Remain if you want Labour to win as many GE votes as possible?
OK so Party makes policy and then its up to voters to decide as opposed to other way round… but show me one party that does not evolve policy to align with the opinion of its core voters… especially when those 3.1 mil blamed the wrong institution for their plight…Had Labour campaigned remain and done a good job and had those 3.1mil blaming the Tories as the rightful cause, Corbyn would be a shoe-in. I should be laughing at the idiocy of it all, but I cant because its too fucking tragic the Tory Brexiteer establishment, old Etonian pig fuckers have outwitted more than enough of the opposition to do their work for them
I don’t think you get it, the majority of politicians wanted to remain, so the working class went against them, or the Northern Labour vote did, been shat upon and patronised for generations, even patronised after said vote by Southern cunts not knowing any better.
No I know you’ve lost the fucking plot, Corbyn had a tough job against the tories but he didn’t have a chance with NU Labour from the south stabbing the poor bastard in the back at every turn.
Yes… and how stupid is that… it should not matter what politicians want, it should be about evaluating the pros and cons… not simply voting the opposite way politicians did because folks dont trust them… its just stupid to do so.
Thats just a moronic response and you know it… means fuck all and is just there to be ‘edgy’…
You need to get over 'NU (sic) Labour vs traditional, bollox… all parties respond to how their core electorate are thinking, its part of the power game. Its quite right that Blair is hated for his arse-licking of Bush and going to an illegal war, but its seems many of his most vocal detracted s hate him more for ‘moving the party to the centrist ground’ than they do for anything else… and this is fucking sad. Because without bringing folks with a more modern centrist, yet social consciousness with them, Labour is doomed and that has fuck all to do with your North South bleating repetitive bollocks - its about a focus on inclusiveness, on what voters have in common, not on where they differ - because its a rich seam for division if they dont… and as a a socalled Labour voter (yeah right) you seem to love spreading that division more than most… thankfully most see through your wind up games son…
Inclusiveness and concession politics has failed, Blair has failed.
What do we have in common and how are we going to achieve it?
Centrism is the land of the liberal and middle England, where power is more important than principle.
What is social consciousness? How much is that in Oldham, Barnsley and Boston? Cheap compared to Winchester, Beaconsfield and Ruislip?
Johnathon Pie was bang on when he said the centre ground is where politics goes to die.
Its a vortex of fuck all.
Don’t even insult me with core elctorate as fucking NU Labour and never will be core, cunts yes, liberals in the wrong party yes, Labour socialst and union led, no, just cunts.
Haha. how do you work that out, you don’t think power is more important than principle across the political divide? About the only thing of interest in that sentence is that, 'Centrism’ is rife in ‘Middle’ England, which is quite clever. The rest is nonsense
It should be. It isn’t, because Brexit has not been delivered, even though the matter of whether we leave or not has been resolved.
Now I’ve seen the verve and enthusiasm with which you and others want this result reversed, even though it is profoundly undemocratic and grossly offensive to most of the people you’re falsely labelling idiots, bigots or whatever.
If you know how passionate you are about that, try putting yourself in the shoes of a Leave voter. Your democratic choice avoided with a chance that it’ll be sidelined forever by MPs elected on the premise of respecting the result.
As much as you might like these things to be unrelated, they are, and the only reason they are is because the situation has not been resolved. If it isn’t resolved before a general election, then the Tories are going to get a landslide.
Then how will Remainers look? Anti-democratic enablers of a Tory government for the next five years, that is how.
Can’t you see how ridiculous that is though a blame game over the GE result because of an unrelated referendum? How democratic is that?
The only way that should be related is if the parties had a definitive position on Brexit…
… so why are so many labour voters (3:1) remainers vs brexiteers ?
As to the ‘insults’ - well we disagree there. There is a subtle difference between labelling individual folks as all those nasty names, versus believing their decision was based on one of those nasty things - and no matter how much you try and make folks feel all judgemental and guilty for suggesting it, there is an awkward truth in it.
If Barry is correct and a load of labour voters up North voted Leave because it was the opposite of what politicians wanted, then that is stupid…
It’s not ridiculous. I do not claim to know the minds of the general public, but what I will venture that they respond better to narratives as they do to detail.
The narrative in this General Election, if it happens, is that Boris’ brand of Conservatives did what they said couldn’t be done, get a new deal with the European Union, which would have gone through except for the “delayers and ditherers” that tried to stop Brexit, tied its hands with the Benn Act, then refused to face the public twice.
That’s a story, and the Tories will tell it again and again in the upcoming election.
Yep that is correct… they will do and but if you believe that it’s true that we are all frustrated and he is great for getting it all done, then you are a bit dim… we need to stop apologizing for recognising the truth which is this is a big manipulation… anyone with intelligence would NOT be frustrated by the so called differing bolocks - people use those words because the MSM and Cummings have been smart in letting it become the urban myth … common sense is about getting it done RIGHT not just getting it DONE… it’s also about avoiding a deal that leaves those such as Boris with a chance to then dither himself and avoid completing it and us ending up with no deal anyway…
The impatience is ridiculous - no one should become frustrated over this just because Cummings is telling everyone we should be… it’s too important - so yes it is STUPID if you are hoodwinked into frustration by cunts like Cummings. Accepting this deal now whatever is just playing into Boris’ hands
Whatever the result of any election, this country is in a very bad place and it clearly is only going to get worse. Comparisons with Germany in the 1930s have been laughed off as hyperbole but it’s not really funny anymore. As a society we are clearly broken, and history has shown that when this happens there are always those in power who are fermenting it, creating the conditions for it to get worse and then capitalizing on the result. Dangerous times.
Even if we are out - they will win. Because the Brexit strategy has always been about energising and harnessing latent right wing tendency - make issues out of things such as migration and motivate those who would otherwise not bother to turn up - give them a reason for voting - flag waving nonsense
Labour won’t lose because of Corbyn or all that anti Semitic nonsense, they will lose for the simple reason they did not back Remain and campaign effectively against the Tories blaming the ills of austerity on the EU… and it’s policies
