You miss the point, just because they have not behaved in a way that is fitting during the last 3 years does not change the principles of the institution, nor should it change our expectations of it… Thats no different than suggesting we should abolish it altogether for ever if it can no longer be trusted to do its job, s opposed to simply recognising its not works in this case because of the selfish greed of a few who have stood to gain financially or politically from what they are doing.
You only have to look at the terms used now, compared to 3 years ago(here included). It’s been a very deliberately led march to the right (as if we weren’t already way past sensible).
There’s some obvious outcomes of this “march” and there will be a lot of hand wringing from those that refused to see what they were led into.
“And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed.”
Milton Mayer
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See I would not be so sure… would depend son who asks - Boris? Aye, even I would tell him to fuck off. But a proper statesman who sets out what I described? I would feel confident they would agree… as for getting a cross party group to work together, it would by necessity need to to exclude those who did not wish to see Brexit through. All would be invited, but the remit is a deal on brexit, not an alternative to it (as much as I would like there to be)
Proper Statesman? Good luck finding one of those in that house
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True… but we should always have hope that one might emerge from the shadows of shit
Sorry, Parliament has abandoned its principles.
They’re not there to scrutinise. They’re sitting to create shit law like Hilary Benn’s Begging Bill.
They won’t choose the usual constitutional solution for a minority government either; a general election.
Where are these principles? Are they stored in a jar somewhere that the next lot can breathe in, or is it as I suspect? That the present Parliament has set massive precedents that have destroyed the basis of its validity?
I really am not sure what relevance that is/what you are on about. Point is very simple, three years of shit, does not mean WE should abandon those expectations… I am talking about a situation that has been engineered so that we abandon rational expectation and accept the worst outcome just to ‘get it done’ because we cant trust the politicians to do it…
… as opposed to recognising they have fucked it up and wait for the next, hopefully better lot to get it done properly… with calm, removing the emotional bollocks … 'death of democracy ’ crap and expect and demand mature states person like behaviour
As should any decent person.
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I see the debate has gone from red lines to grand gestures to now reach If Only.
Which are the 2 worst words in any life.
Day 2 and fuck all
Going to bother sitting tomorrow?
No? Nice long weekend? Lovely stuff
Fucking wankers
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Think your cross threading Phil, as the answer is quite clearly “supports Portsmouth”.
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last orders
we’re closed…
Although sometimes devestating to hear, there’s always the comfort of, open tomorrow.
No such relief for them 
"the Nation has been suffering and Boris is its Dignitas."
I’m nicking that 
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If you don’t want death threats vote for something you don’t agree with.
Facism, pure and simple.
The public have not abandoned those expectations. They still expect a general election when a government can no longer command the confidence of the House. The PM has offered one, and they’re refusing it.
Why? A couple of reasons. Firstly, they’re shit scared that their three years of messing is going to yield some very negative results, as am I. Second, they are wilfully trying to subvert a direct democratic vote.
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Indeed, and the thing is an emboldened and empowered far right aren’t going to miraculously disappear if we leave on the 31st of October. Does anyone think Johnson will suddenly reign in his ego if ‘his’ no deal plans are enacted? Bullies gonna bully. There is more at stake here than respecting the decision of the referendum. That was hijacked a long time ago. Johnson and his advisers are dangerous and must be stopped. Then we should debate and negotiate brexit.
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Have a look a Yaxely-Lennon’s huge far right crowds on his national demo. We’re not even talking a thousand here, skip.
Even when fascism was big, the BUF claimed 50,000 members at its peak, and even then, they had the fuck kicked out of them in Cable Street.
I’ve made this point before, but Paxman reckons the quintessential part of being English is not giving a fuck that you’re English (unless we accidentally win major international gongs).
We are not a nationalist country, and judging by the BUF’s own claimed numbers, we didn’t even fancy it when being nationalist was in vogue.
Given all that, and the sorry state of these twats, racist before Brexit, racist after it, I am having difficulty conceiving how it is going to be any worse now, after nearly a century and generations of immigrants coming to live and mingle here.
So I’m going to put the question back onto you and all the other posters that seem to think we’re about to goosestep down Oxford Street.
Where are you getting your numbers?
This is bullshit. He deliberately caused the problem, so as an honourable member there is only one choice left isn’t there?
He has to resign(just incase you forgot how the real world and parliamentary democracy works).