But are we leaving?
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For the same reasons⊠although i have changed my mind on Scottish Indy 2, should there be a clear path to EU membership, I do NOT believe that at present the SNP does have a mandate - why? because although they have nearly all the MPs, they only gained some 45% of the vote, about the same as previously.
The Lib dems also want to remain in the EU, but also in the union so, I am not sur how things would pan out in an Indy Ref 2 - I suspect it would be tight, but would depend very much on what âguaranteesâ ether were on the EU situation imhoâŠ
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RE Scottish indy Ref 2⊠if FPTP does fuck everything up, but it provides Boris with a âdemocratic majorityâ (under the FPTP system) and he cleary therefore believes he has a mandate for Brexit full on⊠then how can he deny the SNP their indy Ref2 given that in their manifesto and under the same voting system they have an absolute majority within Scotland⊠?
Seems we all want our cake⊠etc⊠or we all want to pretend FPTP is democratic when it suits the agendaâŠ
[Bletch puffs out chest and puts on his best Phil Mitchell voice]
You will be if you donât watch your step. You slag.
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Phil Mitchell would never wear a blouse.
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Sounded more like David Mitchell.
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Yes, people disliking Corbyn was a factor. It was in 2017. Corbyn shipped 2m extra votes from now to then, mostly to the Conservatives and The Brexit Party.
My point? Corbyn was unpopular with some voters in 2017 and 2019. Move 50K votes around in the 2017 GE and Labour would have had a majority. This year, the Tories got a thumping majority.
The only thing that changed were the respective Brexit policies of the two main parties, and I canât help thinking putting a second referendum back on would have damaged Corbynâs popularity further.
The healing of the labour party is off to a good start then
Donât take this personally, because much of the Left does this. You are far from alone, but this focus on individuals in other movements will get you nowhere.
If weâre ever to have a leftist government in charge again, we need to convince people of the merits of trusting a leftist position.
That is never going to happen while so many people that could be advancing these causes are shrill automatons triggered by the merest whiff of Boris Johnson.
The first reply to this is amusing.
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Stick to your cult.
Youâve tried to rewrite history(more than once).
Youâve attempted tarring with a position iâve never held(again, more than once).
Now youâre yet again ignoring the point(s). Still waiting for your reply on what was offered.
Iâve never been interested in your single issue, only how itâs done.
And his name is Alexander(pfeffel is no more of a misuse than what youâve been programmed to repeat)
Oh yeah,
Your wrong, but i love you 
Think Iâll post this in here and in the Labour party thread - belongs in both.
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A fascinating read, thanks
Interesting⊠I like stats that show for example that the lib dems gained some 50% increase on the 2017 vote - obviously this means they collapsed⊠
If Lib Dems were a football squad, theyâd just about be able to field a Parliamentary XI.
Comparing percentages of this election and trying to extrapolate this to a Brexit referendum is deeply flawed
People I know who are staunch remainers voted Tory because they feared Corbyn more than Brexit. You have brexiteers who couldnât bring themselves to vote Tory or their desire to see a labour govt was greater, or just refused to vote
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One interesting fact is that Boris only secure 300k more votes than May, but won a cracking majority because the labour vote collapsed
Which shows a bigger flaw in what we consider âdemocracyâ, if that is possible under our system⊠As mentioned above, of course you have plenty that voted âdifferentlyâ to their brexit choice, but the questions remains valid, to those who dismissed their party and just voted on brexit grounds because of the âneedâ for their ref vote to count⊠we had a chance to make ALL votes cant a few years ago, but turned it down⊠what changed?
I would love to know what they feared⊠higher tax? You cant fear higher tax, you just dont want to pay it, yet we have shity services because we dont pay in enough⊠companies dont pay in enough etc⊠fine if someone wants to stand up and say 'I wont vote labour because I dont want to pay more tax⊠but heard a lot of folks âfearâ Corbyn, without being able to articulate any reason why apart from tax and spend (not a dirty couple of words) or that he is an anti-semite⊠which is simply bollocksâŠ