We are all sat in Christmas jumpers for child in need. Not feeling it.
Giving money to charity when we are childrenās social workers and our referrals are increasing and probably will keep increasing the next 5 years. Ho ho ho
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haha ā¦ where Have I said itās not? please this is hilariousā¦
All I have said is that its fucking stupid that Brexit was teh biggest factor and that those for whom it was and voted differently because of it should take a fucking long look in the mirror, because like it or not Brexit will shaft the very people most who you pretend to care aboutā¦ this is the paradox you cant accept.
You see these people as sort of martyrs to a bigger cause, high ipassioned and focussed on democratic ideals, so much so they were willing to sacrifice their own ell being just to get it doneā¦ I admire you belief in them, I really doā¦ But fundamentally this is rose tinted nonsenseā¦ most of those in that swing camp will have simply believed the lies and the subsequent Cummings strategy of ensuring it became all about ādefending democracyā as a distraction from what a fucking train wreck Boris isā¦ and it worked.
So you go on accusing ālatter day retainersā all you want, but the blame for this lies squarely with those who let themselves be swayed by bullshit and those that spread spread in the first placeā¦ The folks who prioritised a Blue Passport over child poverty - simple as that.
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See to me this is not the full pictureā¦ but its easy to see how it might be considered as such.
You have to remember that:
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The Brexiteers themselves promised a good deal, an easy deal - this was what many voting brexit expected - but this was fantasy, because anyone with a brain could see there would be major issue with NI (which will now be simply forgotten and I can sadly see a potential escalation of violence as a result)
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We forget that there were both Brexiteers and remainers who successively voted against the deals - the remainers because they felt the deal was not what was promised to the electorate and would lead to a no-deal, and the brexiteers themselves because they thought it not harsh enough.
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Now given that trade negotiations typically take 5-10 years, it was critical to get an exit deal in place that would allow a transition and minimise economic riskā¦
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BUT the hard line Brexiteers strategists who really did give fuck about anyone but themselves played a blinder by suggesting through their media channels that any delay was simply an affront to democracyā¦ as opposed to the natural timeframe of complex negotiations - the OPTIMAL approach is always, yes we will leave , but we need to leave rightā¦ I really am at a loss to understand why folks felt it needed to done and dusted in less time than public consultation over HS2ā¦ Its because the stregegist who wanted boris in knew which strings to pullā¦ and how to build a wave of opinion that delays were essentially leading to no brexitā¦
It should have been left to a specific group and the rest of parliament getting on with businessā¦ but again the strategists played a blinder, making it clear that without brexit nothing would move forwardā¦ which was a CHOICE they made not forgone conclusion
Labourās POV was actually very logical and fairā¦ respect the vote, but give folks a chance to vote on the deal - democracy in action, yet this was again better spun by Cummings et al as wavering and unsure, add in the whole anti-semite shit and being clever to demonstrate what have always been normal labour challenges between the left and right of the party as major issues and you have a perfect stormā¦
Some enlightening interviews with voters in northern ex mining communities this morning, places which were devastated by Thatcher and are still paying the price today. One woman in her 70s said she only voted for the conservative candidate because she disliked Jeremy Corbyn. When asked what prompted this dislike she replied, āI donāt like his antisemitismā. But when asked if comments made by Boris Johnson about black people and Muslims had tainted her view of him, she replied, āiāve never heard him say these thingsā. What a damning indictment of our media in this country.
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Labour lost more than 10 points in Pro Leave areas and also lost more than 6 points in the most Pro Remain areas. Also lost 11 points in the most working class areas. So the gamble, of trying to attract a wide cross section of all voters, by remaining ambiguous on Brexit, comprehensively failed
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Be careful NKā¦ someone will accuse you of being very selective about the chosen vox popsā¦ just like those in the she regions that stated they voted Brexit to ākeep the ISIS lot outā - When we know the truth is that all who voted Brexit and Tory did so through rich insight and deep understanding of the situation and consequencesā¦
I would estimate that 80% of MSM, Social et media stream were mostly pumping out Tory shitā¦ bigger budget and smarter manipulation especially of social media more expertly targeted and would not surprise me if Cummings did not learn a lot from teh US/Bannon approach
The worst is how they have managed to get so much of this stuff into the public consciousness that its become like an urban mythā¦ Corbyn, Anti-semite racist, where as Boris could call all black folk the n word and it still not impact on his imageā¦ how Labours measures and imho fair approach to the brexit deal, was perceived as indecisive and undemocratic, because the Brexiteers and Boris clever campaigningā¦
but even worse still is that this may well now become the norm, that the part of the electorate that makes a difference is not concerned about lies being toldā¦ they are comforting as as opposed to more challenging truths. The electorate has forgotten to be appalled by a spectacle such as Boris and his circus of liesā¦
The Libs made the same mistake as May did last time. Tried to make it about their leader and her personality without considering that she might just grate on a lot of people - throw that with a morally bankrupt pledge to revoke A50 without a referendum- they were done
The key difference in the Tory and Labour campaign was that the Tories focussed on a few key message, Brexit, more police, more nurses etc. Labour on the other hand seemed to cover a huge range of policies some of which were āout thereā. Most of it got lost in the noise. The Tories managed to cut through it.
Like him or loathe him, Cummings knows how to win a vote.
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This is the outcome yes, but my point is that its a result of not measured and rational thought, but one of manipulation - voters now ābelieveā that such a measured and rational approach is tied to no brexit and that w should be impatient for and āget brexit doneā. its an illusion, a classic charade to mask the hideousness of his real game plan and the impact it will have on the poorest of this country over which he gives no fucksā¦
Labour were out smarted by masters of the long conā¦ with Brexit simply being a tool in thier long game.
Voters being thick again?
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I donāt think itās a case of voters being āthickā, of course not. But you do have to wonder why someone like Sally Anne Hart, who replaced Amber Rudd as MP for Hastings, despite being currently investigated for antisemitism, islamophobia and homophobia, who on the hustings opined that disabled people should be paid less than the minimum wage because āthey donāt understand moneyā, increased her majority. Why is that? If snap interviews this morning in Hastings are anything to go bypeople are prepared to ignore all of this just as long as they get their way and get Brexit done. But i fully accept that we will never agree on this.
For me, last night showed that, appeal to nationalism and hatred of foreign people and you canāt go wrong. Itās been used since time immemorial to get working class people to kill each other for the benefit of elites.
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More a case of them not questioning what they read and hear and accepting of the very clever propaganda. I would say they are more āwilling to acceptā the bullshit, because they have been primed to do soā¦
All 14 million? Really?
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Nope but certainly the 4 mil swingers who are in effect power wielders in this countryā¦ The clever bit is that you never need to convince everyoneā¦ just enough of those who will not doubt youā¦
But how do describe the working class folks who simply do this? Why do some fall for it so frequently? Despite what some might think, I dont believe they are all stupid, some certainly are/ or at least ignorant, but what about the rest? what is it that makes someone vote for those who treat them like shit and have instigated seismic shifts in our politics that will impact on them most?
It is in my humble opinionā¦ and this is opinion, not fact before someone misquotes or misrepresents my post ā¦againā¦ is that its all part of the elite gameā¦ first you screw them crush their spirit, crush their hopeā¦ then when desperate for change, you always accept something new, happy to accept what is presented as a solution in a desperate hopeā¦ easy to blame those things are different or less well understood be it foreigners or institutions such as the EU, or more nuanced policy (such as Corbynās more rational approach to Brexit)ā¦ its easier to accept a cunt of a sweeper if he comes armed with a new broom, when yours is fuckedā¦
Not sure how many of these 4 million you know, or how many have been approached to hear their reasons? Would hate to think anyone is using sweeping generalisations again 
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I like what you did there. They will vary, but as NK suggests there will be a common threadā¦ lets be really honestā¦ I am sure there are plenty of life long Tories who vote on their principles, some of who are shocked and appalled by Johnson and his behaviour and bigotryā¦ but still voted according to party principles. Its not those i am talking aboutā¦ its those who have traditionally been labour or others, who somehow have come to a conclusion that they MUST get Brexit done whatever the price to be paidā¦ which is just dumbā¦ sorry it isā¦ the only reasons many are frustrated by ābrexitā or that business want t doneā¦ is because we have been continually told that if we donāt do it quick we are fucked, if we donāt do it quick it will never happen, If we donāt do it quick we will lose a string negotiate positionā¦ all of which is simply bollocksā¦ and its no surprise this is spread most vocally by those with most to gain from it being quick and suddenā¦ Like I said before, we seem happy to be patient of consultation for major projects such Runway 3 or HS 2, yet this change which has far greater and longer term consequences must be done a quickly as possible? why? it needs to be done RIGHT.
People are free to have whatever opinions they like.
However, there is such a thing of loserās consent. In this particular case, the losers thought it didnāt apply. Worse, they acted like intellectual superiors or the sole wielders of the moral case.
Mostly though, theyāve just been abusive or patronising.
Personally, I think you get better political analysis by trying to wear someone elseās shoes.
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Why donāt you know? Do you not know any working class people that you can ask?
Jeez, you are on a whole different planetā¦
Yeah thats right, mate only hob nob with the elite me. You donāt do irony do you, suggesting I am wrong to make assumptions about peopleā¦ you are a master of it