is exactly what Starmer has done.
Quite happy to support a party that builds from the left and embraces centrist voters.
I don’t think Starmer wants to build leftward and I’m not for heading in the opposite direction.
2 Likes
Why are you both talking about Starmer like I’m supporting him? I’m not. He’s been ineffective and very disappointing. This is not about Starmer. This is about getting the Conservatives out of power.
You “proper” lefties need to decide what your tactic is. Split off and never see power, and facilitate the Tories forevermore, or join together to try to oust them, then influence from the left.
Seems to me you all bitch and moan about how corrupt and incompetent the Tories are, and then turn your attention to how other lefties aren’t left enough for you to team up with.
Labour has lost the subs of thousands of members under Starmer and the Unions are threatening to withhold more funding. Apparently things are so bad the ruling faction are also talking about setting up a new party, on the back of declaring bankruptcy. Perhaps that’s what Corbyn is trying to get ahead of.
2 Likes
Whereas it seems to us that voting for either cheek of the same arse just results in the same old shit.
It’s the lack of any sort of coherent strategy to try to effect change.
Good intentions don’t work, hence why the Tories manage to get into power over and over.
I’d disagree. I think you’re wilfully ignoring the political malice and making a case from the remnants of whatever’s left, when in fact, it was political malice that was chiefly to blame.
How else do you explain:-
a) People not having a fucking scooby who Jeremy Corbyn was in 2014
b) Those same people viscerally hating him in 2016.
It’s like explaining how babies are made while wilfully skipping the part where humans have sex. Any explanation that doesn’t carry this fact is essentially nonsense.
And as I said when that happened in 2014/15, he needs to realise how to play the game, and quickly, or he’s going to be destroyed. And he didn’t. And he was.
So how would you have dealt with the false accusations of racism?
How is the game played then?
I certainly wouldn’t have taken the time he did to get everything properly investigated - even if not true. It’s all about how this shit perceived - the Tory press lap that shit up.
Not being funny though Pap, this has been done to death, and this is not a Corbyn vs Keir thing. I am talking about the future, and the strategy to get the Tories out of power. Splitting the left is not the way to do that - unless you’re happy as the buttfucked minority of a Labour led coalition, which from what I see above, you wouldn’t be happy with.
So what’s the strategy for getting the Tories out of power?
And yet the leaks say he was getting things vigorously investigated and central office were delaying the investigation. We know that is true to an extent because we saw how long it took Ken Livingstone’s suspension to be investigated ( it never actually happened and Ken left of his own accord after two years in limbo ).
Your analysis is predicated on taking everything at face value from people that were openly hostile to the man in the press.
As said, this has been done to death. The result was he lost.
What is the strategy for the future from a leftie point of view, to oust the Tories?
This was one of the main problems particularly in his early days. There were a number of issues that came up that he didn’t deal promptly enough, even when they didn’t concern him.
There were cases where he could have and should have condemned behaviour by third parties, however, he prevaricated. By not getting on top of a situation, it gives the impression, rightly or wrongly, that you condone it or at least tolerate it.
That then didn’t help him when accusations against him were raised.
1 Like
Sit tight and let Boris weave his magic
As I said, all taken at face value.
Labour are not the left, and won’t be for a while. This is not a democracy we’re living in. We laugh at the likes of Putin for teeing up an alternate PM / President gig. At least he’s being transparent about his corruption.
We’ve got this bollocks veneer of democracy, everybody knows it and after seeing what happened to Corbyn when he tried to play nice and go by the rules, no-one is going to have any faith that the machinations of Parliamentary democracy can ever be used to change the direction of travel.
Everything has been a continuation of Thatcherism and will continue to be. Feel free to believe in the institution of democracy if you want, but don’t blame me if I choose to get my fantasy from George R.R. Martin instead.
I won’t indulge in this one.
2 Likes
I disagree with this - you should say “Labour aren’t left enough”
It’s fine if you have no answer - it’s not an easy one.
I prefer to look for solutions rather than just identify issues.
So do I. Just saving it for the arena that matters.
OK, what arena is that?
There are potential answers in the recent history of the America’s:
Maybe Corbyn’s been picking the Mexican president’s brains for the answers you want.
1 Like
He lost alright, with 40% of the popular vote compared to the tories 42.3%. Starmer isn’t going to get close to that figure. If Corbyn had been allowed by his party to pursue his natural inclination to endorse/accept the brexit vote, he’d probably have won that election.
4 Likes