I don’t think any of us deny that junior doctors work hard and are underpaid, but my position is the following:
There are 15 of 16 points that have been agreed. The one that hasn’t been agreed is about weekend (or specifically Saturday) pay. That the BMA is presenting the strikes as a patient safety to build public support is as bad as Jeremy Hunt lying.
Frankly, I think both parties are as bad as each other…
“What’s wrong with the article?”
“Here are all the things wrong with it”
“Well, yeah, but ignoring all that. I still think this thing.”
Nah, it’s not about Saturday payments. I’ve explained it to you at length above. Choose to swallow Hunt’s bollocks if you wish, but don’t cry when your sources aren’t taken seriously. You asked for reasons why, or problems with it. You get them, then ignore it all.
Penalty rates used to exist for all in Australia, why not here? Why should we be snobbly and elitist about who get extra money for working weekends? Why is the NHS so sacred? Its average health care at best as it is not funded enough, thats not the doctors fault granted but without more money its goosed, I dont mind paying for more but the average Joe doesn’t so the only way is a top up on basic care, its coming but people simply dont waht to admit it.
Waiting times for an appointment, waiting time in emergency care, mental health care and to me the most pressing is care for the elderly and the taking of assets to pay for that, overpopulated, under taxed and under funded.
I’m not ignoring them at all, it’s a very well put argument. I’m also not crying when my sources aren’t taken seriously! However, I still believe the reason the strikes have taken place is due to disagreement on point 16, which is money for weekend work.
As I said above in my earlier posts:
As said previously, I am very good friends with the head of ASiT, which meant that I would read what she said, and give it a fair go. Initially, there were 16 points that had to be agreed. 15 of those 16 have now been agreed. The one that hasn’t been agreed is the amount of money they get paid for working weekends. Therefore, I no longer support the strike. Also, when you have agreed 15 of 16, you don’t leave the negotiating table to strike. You continue to negotiate.
If the BMA want to mislead their members (which they did when creating the mandate for strike, they didn’t mention anything about the areas agreed, and actually used some of the agreed areas as bones of contention in the strike document - even though they’d been agreed) then fair enough, but they’re also misleading the population on this and using ‘patient safety’ as a reason is very underhand.
They have agreed 15 of 16 areas. The 16th, I believe, is around weekend pay. Is it true that if the Government and Mr Cunt backed down and paid for weekend work the contract would have been agreed?
You are still contending this is all about weekend payments. There are greater concerns, about wider changes to the NHS which is what doctors both Junior and more senior have been repeatedly stating. Again, this has all been outlined above.
Why aren’t the parties saying itsd solely about weekend payments?
It has nothing to do with patients, that is heartfelt shite, its bollocks and a smokescreen.
Its solely about money, nothing else, pay them and they will be happy and no faux bitching about patients will be said.
THIS IS WHY THE GOVERNMENT ARE DIGGING THEIR HEELS IN.
The issue of whether the Government is correct is another issue altogether, the naïve Wolfies claim its an ideology struggle and that as may be but sling another £100 in their sky rocket and their moaning goes out the window.
I’m not talking about the doctors here, and I think this is the overall point. The BMA are the ones I have the issue with. They have agreed to all areas of the contract apart from the weekend pay - pretty much rendering your above arguments futile (however correct they may be).
The BMA would not agree all 16 areas of the contract, and then ballot members to go on strike.
Here is NHS waste for you, a close friend arranged events for the NHS ie staffing, new drugs etc etc, she got lost in the labyrinth of positions and got an average of 2 email a month, worked from home and was basically picking up £35,000 a years for doing nothing.
Here is NHS waste for you, a close friend arranged events for the NHS ie staffing, new drugs etc etc, she got lost in the labyrinth of positions and got an average of 2 email a month, worked from home and was basically picking up £35,000 a years for doing nothing.
So shall we destroy the NHS and hand it over to private speculators on the basis of one poorly described, anecdotal account?
Here is NHS waste for you, a close friend arranged events for the NHS ie staffing, new drugs etc etc, she got lost in the labyrinth of positions and got an average of 2 email a month, worked from home and was basically picking up £35,000 a years for doing nothing.
Come on Barry, this shit happens at all big companies. Doesn’t mean the NHS should be pulled apart, rather that it needs a look from top down at all processes the NHS undertakes. And that is a fucking monster project.
Why aren’t the parties saying itsd solely about weekend payments? It has nothing to do with patients, that is heartfelt shite, its bollocks and a smokescreen. Its solely about money, nothing else, pay them and they will be happy and no faux bitching about patients will be said. THIS IS WHY THE GOVERNMENT ARE DIGGING THEIR HEELS IN. The issue of whether the Government is correct is another issue altogether, the naïve Wolfies claim its an ideology struggle and that as may be but sling another £100 in their sky rocket and their moaning goes out the window.
No, it isn’t.
You keep shouting it all you want. We know that’s all you know how to do, but as is the case every other time, that doesn’t make it more true.
Do find your stance interesting though. Back ‘over there’ you were staunch in your defence of tube drivers strikes, which were entirely over money. More money for people less qualified, working less hours and already earning more. Also, you held up Bob Crowe as some kind of god.
But junior doctors? You seem to have some issue with them. Were you once treated by a junior doctor in a pair of sandals? Has this experience scarred you for life?
The tube workers were saying it was about terms and conditions and pay.
The doctors are using patients as a shield.
If you think if you are more qualified that should give you some more rights and better terms and conditions go and stand in the corner and learn some principles of equality.
The tube workers were saying it was about terms and conditions and pay. The doctors are using patients as a shield. If you think if you are more qualified that should give you some more rights and better terms and conditions go and stand in the corner and learn some principles of equality.
No. The doctors are not using patients as a shield, the BMA are. Important distinction here.
If a significant number of doctors fuck off out of England on account of being treated like shit and lied about by their own Health Secretary, patient care will suffer and others might not be so lucky.
Why aren’t the parties saying itsd solely about weekend payments? It has nothing to do with patients, that is heartfelt shite, its bollocks and a smokescreen. Its solely about money, nothing else, pay them and they will be happy and no faux bitching about patients will be said. THIS IS WHY THE GOVERNMENT ARE DIGGING THEIR HEELS IN. The issue of whether the Government is correct is another issue altogether, the naïve Wolfies claim its an ideology struggle and that as may be but sling another £100 in their sky rocket and their moaning goes out the window.
No, it isn’t.
You keep shouting it all you want. We know that’s all you know how to do, but as is the case every other time, that doesn’t make it more true.
Do find your stance interesting though. Back ‘over there’ you were staunch in your defence of tube drivers strikes, which were entirely over money. More money for people less qualified, working less hours and already earning more. Also, you held up Bob Crowe as some kind of god.
But junior doctors? You seem to have some issue with them. Were you once treated by a junior doctor in a pair of sandals? Has this experience scarred you for life?
Not blue collar workers, is it?
So it is ok for blue collar workers to be bullied?
What of right wing fascist forum is this?
People are singling our “more skilled” for better conditions of service, ha ha their respective unions will be thinking what little tories have we got in here, I’m beginning to think people are not as socialist and committed to a fair, equal and just society as they claim.