I donāt really understand the āoff the rockerā lark.
If Western media reports are to be believed, then Ukraine have been considerably more successful in prosecuting their defence in the past few weeks.
What Putin has done is to commit more troops to what was a limited operation.
Can the armchair brigade commanders tell me what is mad about that in this circumstance? Furthermore, what is the sane military option?
Itās not the mobilisation itās the narrative behind the mobilisation
Yeah, but thatās par for the course. When the US and UK went on the warpath in the Middle East, they never said it was their plan to Balkanise and exploit the region.
Iām not saying its right by the way. I almost think it would have been better if people told the truth and gave the public a vote.
Escalating for no real apparent reason (esp with Turkey thinking that after dialogue Putin wants a resolution)
Setting up referendums at short notice, with a short timescale
Mobilising inexperienced citizens to fight
Iāll stop there for now.
The same military option? Seek a negotiated political way out without losing face.
Thatās it from me - 
I havenāt got the sane miliary option yet, so donāt stop.
Jeez
This is the sane option:
ā The same military option? Seek a negotiated political way out without losing face.ā
Itās not difficult @pap
Thatās not on the table.
Every time it has been, Boris or whomever has flown in and told them not to get involved. As a consequence, there has been no negotiated settlement. The war escalates.
I was coming from the Turkish PM quote - more in hope than anything.
The UK seems hell bent on escalating things.
Almost 100% of people in the Donbas have voted to be annexed to Russia
Who would have thought that
Funny that.
In other developments
Iāve read so many articles, BBC and elsewhere, dismissing putinās speech as rambling incoherent homophobia that I looked up the transcript.
From paragraph 19, itās actually quite hard to argue with a lot it. Obviously thereās a huge amount of self justification about the Ukraine invasion involved, but once youāre past that Iād say it was anything but incoherent.
Fucking hell -
Would be comedy gold to see a certain banned member going into meltdown. 
Said this in the previous thread, but this was Russiaās ādonāt fuck with us. Weāre prepared to back words with forceā moment. I refer not just to recent events, but the whole protracted situation, which began in 2014.
It doesnāt make it right and thatās a description, not a justification, but this moment was always coming.
As for the annexations, they change things. Perhaps not internationally, but certainly internally in Russia. Attacks on the previously separatist republics will henceforth be considered an attack on Russian soil.
Do you seriously think I would have posted that if Barry was still here? 
Iām afraid there isnāt a lot of point reading anything about Russia in Western MSM at the moment, they are all singing from the same hymn sheet and it isnāt news, itās propaganda. People such as the certain banned member will swallow the nonsense that this whole Ukranian business is happening because Putin is evil, woke up one morning, went mad and decided to invade Ukraine under no provocation whatsoever, because that is what they desperately want to believe. Just a cursory bit of research as to the history of this conflict shows that it is nonsense.
The origins of this conflict go back at least ten years, to the events leading up to the US inspired and paid for coup in 2014, when the legitimate leader, Yanukovych and his government were overthrown. The West may not have liked Yanukovych, and indeed he may not have been to our taste but he was the legitimate leader of a legitimate government whether we like it or not. Of course the US didnāt like it when he won an election, (which again like it or not was declared free and fair by international observers),they had invested countless millions of dollars in overthrowing him, which they ramped up in 2014, with Western leaders yapping at their heels. Ukraine is rich in sought after minerals and natural resources, US big oil wanted to get their hands on these resources and had invested countless millions to āpromote democracyā in Ukraine in the years leading up to the 2014 coup. They even held press events openly boasting about how much money they were spending āpromoting democracyā in Ukraine, led by the US Secretary of State, they werenāt shy about it.
You only have to look at a map pre Gorbachev receiving assurances of no new NATO expansion, showing NATO bases in the region then, and compare it to the map when Putin launched the invasion, which showed Russia surrounded by NATO. The West, ie The US, looked Gorbachev in the eyes and cynically lied to him. In the years after the 2014 coup many attempts were made by Russia to have the Minsk agreement which addressed this problem implemented, each time dismissed out of hand. In 2016 Zelensky was scheduled to meet face to face with Putin to try and resolve this, but he was advised by the US not to attend, (for advised read ordered not to).
Fortunes are being made by the Military Industrial Complex supplying weapons to Ukraine, US and UK arms manufacturers are making millions. Regular announcements made to a great fanfare about the latest shipment of state of the art weaponry being ādonatedā to the Ukraine cause, as if somehow the manufacturers are giving them away, they are a charity! They arenāt, we as taxpayers are paying for them, 99% of the millions of dollars in āaidā our governments are boasting about āgivingā to Ukraine never leaves the country. For the MIC itās like Christmas and birthday all rolled into one. No doubt a goodly proportion of this dosh ends up in the Cayman Islands and the like.
The narrative keeps being pushed that Russia must be defeated and must be seen to be defeated, ie humiliated. Does anyone seriously believe that in the real world this will happen? More sensible heads must surely prevail, if Russia are backed into a corner goodness knows what could occur, with frightening consequences for all of us. Of course Putin should not have launched the invasion of Ukraine, it canāt be defended, but we are kidding ourselves and swallowing bullshit if we believe that it was unprovoked. Russia were increasingly surrounded by NATO bases and forces, obliged to go through hostile territories to reach their own naval bases, no country in the world would tolerate that, least of all the USA. It should never have come to the situation that exists today, and could have been avoided if negotiations had been allowed to take place. Sadly, the more I see of Zelensky the less I like, I watched him yesterday and he is increasingly becoming like a tin pot dictator, immediately on cue announcing that he is applying for NATO membership, which has been his and his paymasterās plan from the beginning. And how did he come by the reported 200 plus millions of dollars he has accumulated in offshore tax havens, as detailed in the Panama Papers. Itās difficult to believe that stand up comedy in Ukraine pays that well!
Ukraine Ambassador to Germany replies to Elin Musk
Not much of a diplomat, is he?
