All I can say is that Iām surprised two liberal people feel they need to leave what is clearly a very liberal forum by default, just because one person out over over one hundred said something we donāt approve of.
Iām assuming theyāre choosing to return to what I would describe as a more 50/50 forum in terms of liberal thinking.
Shame.
Pap mate, that was a hand grenade that went off in here, and it may be out of context or for dramatic effect, but it still distributed shrapnel through the ranks.
Making the enormous effort to create an alternative forum with a new way of thinking is to be supported, but people will naturally choose who they want to hang out with.
Personally I like motorsport, football, the ladies, music, Iām not into tennis, linedancing, racism or soap operas.
People will naturally move to things they like and away from the othersā¦
It is that approach that brought a few people here from the frothing-at-the-mouth personal abuse and bonkers attitudes offered by a select few and doing damage over the other side.
Lou, I see where you are coming from but if someone stands up and shouts anything loudly it is heard above the other 100.
If the other 100 are silent they either agree without wanting to announce it - or they may have just left.
Originally posted by @Fatso
Fair doās pap. Good response. And youāre right, I feel bad about calling your dad a cunt. Iām sure heās not a cunt. I just had high hopes for this place as being different to the other fashioned sites. Iām tired of debating racism or immigration with people on saints boards. It never ends well and people never change their minds. Itās pointless and it makes me angry. I was hoping that this place wonāt see these sorry of pointless debates. If I wanted to listen to ill informed nonsense I could post on swf. Nobby finds it funny that verbal has left because just one person admitted to v being racist and I said I was considering leaving as well. Thereās nothing funny about that. Done people might like to discuss racism on the internet. Iām just very bored of it and just want a board where people can talk about football and bollocks. Otherwise this board is no different to any others, and the rest of them are shit.
Iām with you on that, Fatso, thatās for sure. But I get zero sense that this place is going to turn into that. I hope you donāt leave, because your contribution is one of the things that will probably stop this from happening.
yeah papsweb is loads more liberal! Go on saintsweb and call steve grantās dad a cunt, see what happens!
Originally posted by @Fatso
Fair doās pap. Good response. And youāre right, I feel bad about calling your dad a cunt. Iām sure heās not a cunt. I just had high hopes for this place as being different to the other fashioned sites. Iām tired of debating racism or immigration with people on saints boards. It never ends well and people never change their minds. Itās pointless and it makes me angry. I was hoping that this place wonāt see these sorry of pointless debates. If I wanted to listen to ill informed nonsense I could post on swf. Nobby finds it funny that verbal has left because just one person admitted to v being racist and I said I was considering leaving as well. Thereās nothing funny about that. Done people might like to discuss racism on the internet. Iām just very bored of it and just want a board where people can talk about football and bollocks. Otherwise this board is no different to any others, and the rest of them are shit.
I donāt really want Furball leaving either. It makes no real sense to me. Heās perfectly capable of debating the old man, and while I appreciate the new found accord in our relationship, Iām not sure why heās concerned about potentially getting into it with him. He had no issue doing the same with me.
I also donāt understand the apparent double standard. Anyone on SaintsWeb has had to deal with racist comments. Itās a lot more insidious there, arriving in many different forms. It might have been people saying they didnāt understand what racism was, or referring to all immigrants as āverminā. I know, because I consistently took people to task for it. I donāt remember anyone leaving, or threatening to leave, over any of that.
Originally posted by @Bearsy
Originally posted by @Coxford_lou
All I can say is that Iām surprised two liberal people feel they need to leave what is clearly a very liberal forum by default, just because one person out over over one hundred said something we donāt approve of.
Iām assuming theyāre choosing to return to what I would describe as a more 50/50 forum in terms of liberal thinking.
Shame.
yeah papsweb is loads more liberal! Go on saintsweb and call steve grantās dad a cunt, see what happens!
LOL, I just spat my branflakes back into the bowl
Originally posted by @Rallyboy
Lou, I see where you are coming from but if someone stands up and shouts anything loudly it is heard above the other 100.
If the other 100 are silent they either agree without wanting to announce it - or they may have just left.
I donāt think the other 100 will ever be silent on here! And youāve got two mods who are liberal and thoughtful in their responses. I trust them.
Originally posted by @Fatso
Originally posted by @pap
Meh, I go away for eight hours and this is what happens.
Having spent years socialising with the old fella, I donāt really agree with his assessment that heās a racist. He might think he is. Who knows? Maybe when I disappear off to wherever, he remembers that heās not talking to a multi-racial mutt and whips the Combat 18 paraphenalia out, or Nazi drapes unfurl from the ceiling and roll to the floor.
If he is a racist, heās a pretty shit one. He married my old dear for one; her name aināt Sarah. Heās also missed every opportunity to mould me into someone who cuts eyes into pillowcases. Quite why he took me to Madame Tussauds when we could have started a race war in pre-gentrified Brixton is now beyond me. The three years he spent living in France, speaking French and living like a fucking Frenchman must have been hell.
My suspicion is heās either being deliberately provocative (he has also claimed to be the āmost selfish man in the worldā - he isnāt) or at worst, is simply of the mind that when you move to a different culture, you should be prepared to work for it, and within its existing cultural setup. That might be complete bollocks though, and Iām sure heāll tell me if it is.
Iād like to address Fatsoās point about what this means for the forum. One of the things that many of us didnāt enjoy about the old place was the phenomenon of playing the man instead of the post. For the most part, Fatso plays the post, and does it well. The part where people get called cunts or harbingers of doom for the forum? Not so much. I donāt agree with unionhotel on his points, but can we honestly say the thread is worse for them being made? Racism, whether we liberal elite types consider it or not, is a part of the European Union conundrum. Itās essentially what Farage and co campaigned on, and they got around 4 million votes.
As for the forum itself propagating racist views, it wonāt happen while bletch and I are in charge, but at the same time, and I think this thread shows that - weāre trying to be smart enough to view things in context.
Fair doās pap. Good response. And youāre right, I feel bad about calling your dad a cunt. Iām sure heās not a cunt. I just had high hopes for this place as being different to the other foitball sites. Iām tired of debating racism or immigration with people on saints boards. It never ends well and people never change their minds. Itās pointless and it makes me angry. I was hoping that this place wonāt see these sorry of pointless debates. If I wanted to listen to ill informed nonsense I could post on swf. Nobby finds it funny that verbal has left because just one person admitted to being racist and I said I was considering leaving as well. Thereās nothing funny about that. Some people might like to discuss racism on the internet. Iām just very bored of it and just want a board where people can talk about football and bollocks. Otherwise this board is no different to any others, and the rest of them are shit.
Sorry, but to me there was something funny. This is the problem, I think you criticise intolerance yet you are intolerant yourself. Also, if you donāt want to discuss racism, donāt post, no-one is making you.
Those are fair points, but as Lou says, I donāt see this place becoming some kind of hotbed for racism. I just donāt want it becoming the sort of place where free speech is censored.
In terms of people moving away from what they like, thatās kind of why the forum is split into different sections. I rarely contributed on the main board back on TSW; the Lounge and TMS were my home. Reason? I didnāt like spending time in a sub-forum where 90% of the content is bickering and bollocks based on speculation. Others will have loved it.
Different people want different things. Some people say they want one thing, then disappear when it arrives. We were knocked for having no edge back in the early days. As soon as we get a sharp thread, the same people complain that theyāve been cut.
All Iāve got to say on the issue is if you donāt like the tone of the thread avoid it and donāt comment. Use some self regulation.
I donāt see a current of racism or hatred or cliqueness here (yet), itās only one thread and one person!
This is the reason I come on this forum.
Iām intolerant of intolerance. Forgive me. Iāve also said I shanāt be discussing racism or immigration anymore. The point is, I want expecting to do that here. I thought this was place was different. If Iām being asked to ignore racist posts then I see no different to swf, which begs the question, what is the purpose of this place?
Iāve recently spent time watching desperately overworked nurses and doctors struggling to care for my mother-in-law as she spent 8 weeks dying in a hospital bed. Iām presently witnessing two friends of mine being driven to suicidal thoughts by the failure of the care authorities to provide worthwhile assistance to them as they struggle to cope with the suffering of their schizophrenic son.
What has this got to do with the above? Well, I believe more and more of us are seeing this countryās infrastructure ā hospitals, schools, housing, transport etc. ā struggling to cope with an ever rising population. Leaving aside the argument as to whether or not the Government could be doing more to improve the countryās infrastructure, a lot of people blame these problems on the rising population, especially the rising immigrant population. But, this doesnāt necessarily mean that these people are racist or even Little Englanders, imo.
Look at it this way, if there was one place left in your local hospital, school, housing association, train etc. who would you rather it go to: a family member or a friend, a friend or an acquaintance, an acquaintance or a stranger, a local or an outsider, a fellow countryman or a foreigner? I believe that humans have evolved to ā for want of a better phrase ā ālook after their ownā.
HOWEVER, it is also my belief that the worldās problems are not going to be solved by individual nations, cultures, ethnicities etc entrenching and erecting barriers. Utopian, unrealistic and naĆÆve as it may sound, ultimately, the only way forward is integration, imo. How the hell weāre ever going to achieve that, I havenāt a clue.
Finally, Iād like to appeal to Furball (and Fatso and anyone else) not to leave the forum. Furball, I can fully understand the reasons you outlined in your post above why you feel you have to leave; but I think that Pap has shown that he wonāt cut his dad any slack if he disagrees with him, so wouldnāt it be better to stay and do what you do so well, namely, argue your case?
Originally posted by Fatso olerant yourself. Also, if you donāt want to discuss racism, donāt post, no-one is making you.
Iām intolerant of intolerance. Forgive me. Iāve also said I shanāt be discussing racism or immigration anymore. The point is, I want expecting to do that here. I thought this was place was different. If Iām being asked to ignore racist posts then I see no different to swf, which begs the question, what is the purpose of this place?
The site is run by a nipper with Pakistani heritage, two half Iranian siblings and a mixed extended family. Race was always going to be an item of discussion.
And no different from SWF? Are you kidding, sir? Take a look at the intent in most of their threads there. Womenās World Cup. Heysel. ISIS. Boat immigrants. Youāve got a few people fighting the good fight there, but that is fucking it. Itās mostly a solid bed of cunts saying cuntish things. I donāt get that vibe here.
What I want know is whatās happened to Papās Dad! Is going to be allowed back on Papsweb to defend himself, or has Pap gone all Grantie, and banned him?!
Sorry to hear about your experience HS. I went through a similar thing with my mother last year. This is a very small country and I agree that the infrastructure cannot deal with the population explosion. I support the EU. I think we should have adopted the Euro (if counties like Germany and France can give up their currancies why cant we?) years ago. I am not racist and I am not a Little Englander. What I am is realsistic. Open borders are all well and good if you have the capacity and the support. We have neither and at some point someone will need to say enough is enough. Housing is in crisis to the extent that the greenbelt is no longer safe. Where I live more and more agricultural land is being turned into building sites. It needs to stop. Immigration needs to be controlled. Not stopped. Controlled. This is not racism, it is pragmatism. Our motorways are already too small. Our airports are too small. The NHS cant cope. Something has to change.
And also, for avoidance of any doubt, I think Steve and the mods on the other place are also liberal in their views. I just think on a site that large, and a football site first and foremost, itās inevitable youāre going to get odds and sods on there.
More sods than odds though Lou 
Thatās a real shame, and I know weāll be poorer for you not being around.
Steveweb, on the other hand, will be Ā£5 richer
