All I can say is that I’m surprised two liberal people feel they need to leave what is clearly a very liberal forum by default, just because one person out over over one hundred said something we don’t approve of.
I’m assuming they’re choosing to return to what I would describe as a more 50/50 forum in terms of liberal thinking.
Shame.
Pap mate, that was a hand grenade that went off in here, and it may be out of context or for dramatic effect, but it still distributed shrapnel through the ranks.
Making the enormous effort to create an alternative forum with a new way of thinking is to be supported, but people will naturally choose who they want to hang out with.
Personally I like motorsport, football, the ladies, music, I’m not into tennis, linedancing, racism or soap operas.
People will naturally move to things they like and away from the others…
It is that approach that brought a few people here from the frothing-at-the-mouth personal abuse and bonkers attitudes offered by a select few and doing damage over the other side.
Lou, I see where you are coming from but if someone stands up and shouts anything loudly it is heard above the other 100.
If the other 100 are silent they either agree without wanting to announce it - or they may have just left.
Originally posted by @Fatso
Fair do’s pap. Good response. And you’re right, I feel bad about calling your dad a cunt. I’m sure he’s not a cunt. I just had high hopes for this place as being different to the other fashioned sites. I’m tired of debating racism or immigration with people on saints boards. It never ends well and people never change their minds. It’s pointless and it makes me angry. I was hoping that this place won’t see these sorry of pointless debates. If I wanted to listen to ill informed nonsense I could post on swf. Nobby finds it funny that verbal has left because just one person admitted to v being racist and I said I was considering leaving as well. There’s nothing funny about that. Done people might like to discuss racism on the internet. I’m just very bored of it and just want a board where people can talk about football and bollocks. Otherwise this board is no different to any others, and the rest of them are shit.
I’m with you on that, Fatso, that’s for sure. But I get zero sense that this place is going to turn into that. I hope you don’t leave, because your contribution is one of the things that will probably stop this from happening.
yeah papsweb is loads more liberal! Go on saintsweb and call steve grant’s dad a cunt, see what happens!
Originally posted by @Fatso
Fair do’s pap. Good response. And you’re right, I feel bad about calling your dad a cunt. I’m sure he’s not a cunt. I just had high hopes for this place as being different to the other fashioned sites. I’m tired of debating racism or immigration with people on saints boards. It never ends well and people never change their minds. It’s pointless and it makes me angry. I was hoping that this place won’t see these sorry of pointless debates. If I wanted to listen to ill informed nonsense I could post on swf. Nobby finds it funny that verbal has left because just one person admitted to v being racist and I said I was considering leaving as well. There’s nothing funny about that. Done people might like to discuss racism on the internet. I’m just very bored of it and just want a board where people can talk about football and bollocks. Otherwise this board is no different to any others, and the rest of them are shit.
I don’t really want Furball leaving either. It makes no real sense to me. He’s perfectly capable of debating the old man, and while I appreciate the new found accord in our relationship, I’m not sure why he’s concerned about potentially getting into it with him. He had no issue doing the same with me.
I also don’t understand the apparent double standard. Anyone on SaintsWeb has had to deal with racist comments. It’s a lot more insidious there, arriving in many different forms. It might have been people saying they didn’t understand what racism was, or referring to all immigrants as “vermin”. I know, because I consistently took people to task for it. I don’t remember anyone leaving, or threatening to leave, over any of that.
Originally posted by @Bearsy
Originally posted by @Coxford_lou
All I can say is that I’m surprised two liberal people feel they need to leave what is clearly a very liberal forum by default, just because one person out over over one hundred said something we don’t approve of.
I’m assuming they’re choosing to return to what I would describe as a more 50/50 forum in terms of liberal thinking.
Shame.
yeah papsweb is loads more liberal! Go on saintsweb and call steve grant’s dad a cunt, see what happens!
LOL, I just spat my branflakes back into the bowl
Originally posted by @Rallyboy
Lou, I see where you are coming from but if someone stands up and shouts anything loudly it is heard above the other 100.
If the other 100 are silent they either agree without wanting to announce it - or they may have just left.
I don’t think the other 100 will ever be silent on here! And you’ve got two mods who are liberal and thoughtful in their responses. I trust them.
Originally posted by @Fatso
Originally posted by @pap
Meh, I go away for eight hours and this is what happens.
Having spent years socialising with the old fella, I don’t really agree with his assessment that he’s a racist. He might think he is. Who knows? Maybe when I disappear off to wherever, he remembers that he’s not talking to a multi-racial mutt and whips the Combat 18 paraphenalia out, or Nazi drapes unfurl from the ceiling and roll to the floor.
If he is a racist, he’s a pretty shit one. He married my old dear for one; her name ain’t Sarah. He’s also missed every opportunity to mould me into someone who cuts eyes into pillowcases. Quite why he took me to Madame Tussauds when we could have started a race war in pre-gentrified Brixton is now beyond me. The three years he spent living in France, speaking French and living like a fucking Frenchman must have been hell.
My suspicion is he’s either being deliberately provocative (he has also claimed to be the “most selfish man in the world” - he isn’t) or at worst, is simply of the mind that when you move to a different culture, you should be prepared to work for it, and within its existing cultural setup. That might be complete bollocks though, and I’m sure he’ll tell me if it is.
I’d like to address Fatso’s point about what this means for the forum. One of the things that many of us didn’t enjoy about the old place was the phenomenon of playing the man instead of the post. For the most part, Fatso plays the post, and does it well. The part where people get called cunts or harbingers of doom for the forum? Not so much. I don’t agree with unionhotel on his points, but can we honestly say the thread is worse for them being made? Racism, whether we liberal elite types consider it or not, is a part of the European Union conundrum. It’s essentially what Farage and co campaigned on, and they got around 4 million votes.
As for the forum itself propagating racist views, it won’t happen while bletch and I are in charge, but at the same time, and I think this thread shows that - we’re trying to be smart enough to view things in context.
Fair do’s pap. Good response. And you’re right, I feel bad about calling your dad a cunt. I’m sure he’s not a cunt. I just had high hopes for this place as being different to the other foitball sites. I’m tired of debating racism or immigration with people on saints boards. It never ends well and people never change their minds. It’s pointless and it makes me angry. I was hoping that this place won’t see these sorry of pointless debates. If I wanted to listen to ill informed nonsense I could post on swf. Nobby finds it funny that verbal has left because just one person admitted to being racist and I said I was considering leaving as well. There’s nothing funny about that. Some people might like to discuss racism on the internet. I’m just very bored of it and just want a board where people can talk about football and bollocks. Otherwise this board is no different to any others, and the rest of them are shit.
Sorry, but to me there was something funny. This is the problem, I think you criticise intolerance yet you are intolerant yourself. Also, if you don’t want to discuss racism, don’t post, no-one is making you.
Those are fair points, but as Lou says, I don’t see this place becoming some kind of hotbed for racism. I just don’t want it becoming the sort of place where free speech is censored.
In terms of people moving away from what they like, that’s kind of why the forum is split into different sections. I rarely contributed on the main board back on TSW; the Lounge and TMS were my home. Reason? I didn’t like spending time in a sub-forum where 90% of the content is bickering and bollocks based on speculation. Others will have loved it.
Different people want different things. Some people say they want one thing, then disappear when it arrives. We were knocked for having no edge back in the early days. As soon as we get a sharp thread, the same people complain that they’ve been cut.
All I’ve got to say on the issue is if you don’t like the tone of the thread avoid it and don’t comment. Use some self regulation.
I don’t see a current of racism or hatred or cliqueness here (yet), it’s only one thread and one person!
This is the reason I come on this forum.
I’m intolerant of intolerance. Forgive me. I’ve also said I shan’t be discussing racism or immigration anymore. The point is, I want expecting to do that here. I thought this was place was different. If I’m being asked to ignore racist posts then I see no different to swf, which begs the question, what is the purpose of this place?
I’ve recently spent time watching desperately overworked nurses and doctors struggling to care for my mother-in-law as she spent 8 weeks dying in a hospital bed. I’m presently witnessing two friends of mine being driven to suicidal thoughts by the failure of the care authorities to provide worthwhile assistance to them as they struggle to cope with the suffering of their schizophrenic son.
What has this got to do with the above? Well, I believe more and more of us are seeing this country’s infrastructure – hospitals, schools, housing, transport etc. – struggling to cope with an ever rising population. Leaving aside the argument as to whether or not the Government could be doing more to improve the country’s infrastructure, a lot of people blame these problems on the rising population, especially the rising immigrant population. But, this doesn’t necessarily mean that these people are racist or even Little Englanders, imo.
Look at it this way, if there was one place left in your local hospital, school, housing association, train etc. who would you rather it go to: a family member or a friend, a friend or an acquaintance, an acquaintance or a stranger, a local or an outsider, a fellow countryman or a foreigner? I believe that humans have evolved to – for want of a better phrase – ‘look after their own’.
HOWEVER, it is also my belief that the world’s problems are not going to be solved by individual nations, cultures, ethnicities etc entrenching and erecting barriers. Utopian, unrealistic and naïve as it may sound, ultimately, the only way forward is integration, imo. How the hell we’re ever going to achieve that, I haven’t a clue.
Finally, I’d like to appeal to Furball (and Fatso and anyone else) not to leave the forum. Furball, I can fully understand the reasons you outlined in your post above why you feel you have to leave; but I think that Pap has shown that he won’t cut his dad any slack if he disagrees with him, so wouldn’t it be better to stay and do what you do so well, namely, argue your case?
Originally posted by Fatso olerant yourself. Also, if you don’t want to discuss racism, don’t post, no-one is making you.
I’m intolerant of intolerance. Forgive me. I’ve also said I shan’t be discussing racism or immigration anymore. The point is, I want expecting to do that here. I thought this was place was different. If I’m being asked to ignore racist posts then I see no different to swf, which begs the question, what is the purpose of this place?
The site is run by a nipper with Pakistani heritage, two half Iranian siblings and a mixed extended family. Race was always going to be an item of discussion.
And no different from SWF? Are you kidding, sir? Take a look at the intent in most of their threads there. Women’s World Cup. Heysel. ISIS. Boat immigrants. You’ve got a few people fighting the good fight there, but that is fucking it. It’s mostly a solid bed of cunts saying cuntish things. I don’t get that vibe here.
What I want know is what’s happened to Pap’s Dad! Is going to be allowed back on Papsweb to defend himself, or has Pap gone all Grantie, and banned him?!
Sorry to hear about your experience HS. I went through a similar thing with my mother last year. This is a very small country and I agree that the infrastructure cannot deal with the population explosion. I support the EU. I think we should have adopted the Euro (if counties like Germany and France can give up their currancies why cant we?) years ago. I am not racist and I am not a Little Englander. What I am is realsistic. Open borders are all well and good if you have the capacity and the support. We have neither and at some point someone will need to say enough is enough. Housing is in crisis to the extent that the greenbelt is no longer safe. Where I live more and more agricultural land is being turned into building sites. It needs to stop. Immigration needs to be controlled. Not stopped. Controlled. This is not racism, it is pragmatism. Our motorways are already too small. Our airports are too small. The NHS cant cope. Something has to change.
And also, for avoidance of any doubt, I think Steve and the mods on the other place are also liberal in their views. I just think on a site that large, and a football site first and foremost, it’s inevitable you’re going to get odds and sods on there.
More sods than odds though Lou 
That’s a real shame, and I know we’ll be poorer for you not being around.
Steveweb, on the other hand, will be £5 richer
