Hang on, Barryâs not far right? But his ideas and opinions are entrenched in the rightâŠ
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-35025160
Seems that Cameronâs EU reform goals may be tough to reach - âno consesusâ at the moment amongst EU leaders.
The objectives do seem pretty vague but also quite difficult to attain. I do wonder whether theyâve set the bar deliberately high in order to be able to leave the EU, as being Anti-EU from the start may have been quite a divisive stance. Playing the victim because they wouldnât agree to our demands is a much easier way to leave.
The main thing that stands out for me is the restriction of in-work benefits for EU migrants. Itâs been proven time and time again that EU migrants are far less likely to claim welfare than UK residents, and that they pay far more into the system in tax than they get out in medical care, welfare etc. Seems like pointless scapegoating to me, and I donât see it as something that will go down particularly well with other member states (with the exception of perhaps Germany), especially given that there are 30,000+ UK nationals claiming unemployment across other EU statesâŠ
This seems to have been Tory tactic 101 for the past 5 or so years.
Announce something ridiculous, scale back a bit, look less ridiculous (in theory), get what they actually wanted.
That, or they really are just that darn inept.
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Itâs a hard choice between the two - there can be a fine line between Machiavellian and Rooneyan.
Originally posted by @KRG
Anyone see their absolutely calamitious here launch by the way? Featuring a certain Mr Robinson.
I have now.
I read the Independent article that followed it. His response:-
âMore happened last night they I can imagine [sic] and all because of one short clip on a Channel 4 interview that was clearly edited and cut to suit their left wing agenda.â
Yes mate, thatâll be the left-wing establishment making you out to look as articulate as a fucking lump hammer. That nasty left-wing establishment.
Now that I think about it, Pegida UK bloke really is the racist-but-doesnât-want-to-admit it version of Joe Beasley (and cheeky monkey).
Paraphrasing, âthey made me forget me political convictions, the cheeky Muslimsâ.
Self determination is a far more important issue than benefit claimants to me.
30,000 is a tiny number, the claimants argument is the road the fascist left/EU lovers love to pull the EU sceptics down.
do they dare question any other European Country who questions it?
This are arguably one of the most tolerant Nations on the planet and thatâs something very positive, the extreme left hate that? Their beloved EU and its Nations are far more racist and intolerant than we are.
Everything is either âextremeâ or âhardâ with you isnât it Bazza? 30k is a small number, but it does show that sometimes people NEED to claim welfare in order to support themselves in the short term, allowing them to contribute to society in the long term. If people are abusing the system and have no intention of working in the UK, thatâs the point I would seek to stop welfare to them - not before that.
I agree with your earlier post that welfare isnât as important in this debate as self-determination, but the media will undoubtedly focus on this part of negotiations as it plays into their narrative. I doubt our chances of being cut a deal on self-determination and being able to veto, that seems to be much more of an In/Out question rather than there being any middle ground for us to play on. If we can negotiate some sort of process whereby the UK parliament can veto an EU policy, thatâs a win for me. I am wary of a larger influence on UK policy from outside the country, but am still in favour of staying in.
How many EU claimants do we have here and how many form a % of UK citizens claiming?
What are they claiming?
Where are they claiming?
How many live in a house?
Are they claiming from abroad?
As always the extremes of both sides drive the agenda and debate, fuck that.
The extreme left and right are the same and both should be driven into the sea.
Why donât the extreme left in this Country hammer far more racist EU Countries? Ah yes its a proxy war and they couldnât actually give a shit about other Nations citizens its just a stick to smack the establishment with.
Itâs a good job that we have you as the voice of reason, Barry. The middle ground between the extreme left and the extreme right.
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Thatâs what we need a third way Fatso, Iâm sure we have had that before though.
Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez
Self determination is a far more important issue than benefit claimants to me.
So Liverpool should be able to declare independence and establish a city state if it wants to?
How could it?
Iâm going to love this reply.
Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez
How could it? Iâm going to love this reply.
Same reason as any other group of people that seek self-determination. Doesnât feel its concerns are being addressed by the nation state that governs it and feels it would be better off making a go of it on its own.
Didnât the North East have a devolution vote?
Why give more power to local politicians?
Eagle, Rotherham, Ellman and Berger are all company people anyway.
They would never leave the UK, neither would Anderson, the Iâm not English Iâm scouse brigade would shit it on a vote as well.
But for sure if we are going to get quite rightly a vote on membership of this highly undemocratic Union that is the EU I am all for devolution or full independent states if local appetites show for it, no one would leave though.
Even Nationalist Irish are now not looking to leave due to the finances of the South, who would subsidize the Northern Cities?
Cameron is hinting that we may have a referendum next year.
Better sooner rather than laterâŠalso puts the pressure on the EU, at a time when itâs unstable at best, to give him what he wants.
There is no way on earth heâll be getting what he wants.