Iām really not sold on this idea that anything the EU has achieved, would have been achieved anyway.
70 years peace? That would have happened anyway! Why did it never happen then?
Same as the Human Right Act/Convention (whatever itās called). If it was so easy to implement, why on earth were teh things the EU did never done prior to it.
The European Commission on Human Rights and the European Union are two different entities I think
The labour market has changed, we donāt as a Nation mass produce quality goods anymore and have industries of cheap labour as demonstrated by the top up benefit culture.
To me all the EU has done is extend health and safety laws which has in turn made everything more expensive and created a blame culture which again has cost the consumer more, due to this expense we now look to exploit markets out of the EU and for the markets here we relentlessly march West for cheaper labour to undercut hard fought for conditions by the Unions, the big business and the lackey mpās that follow this selfish dream for their own pursuits should be on trial for traitorous acts to the Nation.
Here is where Monty Python takes over and Roads, Plumbing all the good stuff that the EU could have done for us but havenāt come out.
Actually, this isnāt true. We do mass produce some high(ish) quality products - itās just that the companies in these industries con only compete by being incredibly productive. this means very high levels of automation which means that said industries emply very few people.
For example, we make huge numbers of cars in this country, mostly for export. The companies may be owned by overseas organizations but they are based in the UK and employ British workers on good wages - just not very many of them.
We do make huge numbers of Japanese cars yes, however we are at the whim of market forces and every 5 years we wheel out poverty for the North East if Sunderland isnāt saved, I prefer a self reliant option and one thats highly skilled. How do the French and German market models work? Oh yes they actually help their citizens,
Yes, but none of that has anything to do with the EU, does it? Apart from the fact that one of the reasons they chose to site their factories in the UK was to access the European market.
Thereās actually a very good example of what the EU does for us going on right now. The Supreme Court has ruled against us on air pollution, so yeah, there are examples when the organisation does good, and lots of them.
Thing is, weāve all seen the nastier side now. It involves suspending democracy and prioritising the financial system over the basic needs of people in places like Greece. It includes getting countries to vote again if the first democratic answer they receive is not to their liking.
Politically, weāre one country. Culturally, weāre not. That doesnāt completely explain the relative indifference we see over the enforcement of harsh austerity measures in Greece, because the truth is that politicians will put people into poverty, demonising them at the same time to stop everyone else complaining. Weāre doing it now. Christ, weāve been doing it forever.
That said, the damage that the EU is capable of causing through such indifference is potentially staggering. Weāre getting a little nibble of it now, but even if the EU Commission was replaced by a democratic entity, and didnāt happen to be completely swarmed by corporate interests, thereās _still a _chance that the Germans and others will still vote for Greek poverty.
If thatās possible, then the EU is not collectively ready to be a real country. European union is a fantastic ideal, but itās like democracy in the Middle East. Itāll never work unless people have a deep understanding of the principles, why theyāre important and a commitment to realising them, self-realisation normally being key.
I used to be an apologist for the people that really believed in the project. I didnāt agree with the anti-democratic EU Commission, but putting myself in their shoes, I could understand them wanting to make political hay while the sun shined. This is a once in a, what, _world_time opportunity? After so many other efforts had foundered?
The reality is that the public just wonāt go any further. For now, I think the EU works best as a check and balance against the insanity of transient governments. It also needs to change its priorities; it cannot be seen as the plaything of banks and corporates anymore. Needs to get big on things it can really affect, such as tax avoidance within the continent.
You gotta wonder how further along the EU project would have been if it had stood up to the financial system.
They are here for European markets and no doubt about that, we produce cars in this Country for another Country, thats the long and the short of it, we have no car industry as we sold ours all of, prestige and pride is something we donāt do. What do we actually own?
So, this is going to be a thrilling referendum campaign, isnāt it?
Nevertheless, in a bid to get the campaign going at what the Newcastle Evening Chronicledescribed as a ānot sold outā venue in Gateshead on Monday evening, Farage tried his best pantomime act - pointing at flags and getting the audience to boo/cheer as appropriate
In, out (shake it all about), whatever. I donāt care. Just wake me up when this shit is over.
Blimey - not helpful for the In campaign
Juncker to EU Parliament: āWe need Britain. Personally I donāt think Britain needs the European Union.ā
Awkward for In if true @asabenn: Juncker says- 'We need Britain. Personally I donāt think Britain needs the European Union."ā
3:33 PM - 14 Oct 2015
The truth hopefully will come out of this expensive folly, what do we get out of it? Non unionised companies get cheap labour and the working man is undercut, rising housing costs, London not coping with the expansion, failing NHS, our true leader Corbyn wants us out but has had to toe the party line.
Free vote though so fuck the party on this.
[Nigel Farage seized on the disputed remarks, saying he would buy Mr Juncker champagne for his āspot onā comments.](/chat/Nigel%20Farage%20seized%20on%20the%20disputed%20remarks,%20saying%20he%20would%20buy%20Mr%20Juncker%20champagne%20for%20his%20%22spot%20on%22%20comments. "Nigel Farage seized on the disputed remarks, saying he would buy Mr Juncker champagne for his āspot onā comments. ")
A bit of analysis on the rise of the far right. Ironically enough, only Germany seems immune.
Page not open, ah the lefts greatest asset, freedom of speech well unless its the guardianā¦
I havenāt had a chance to read the article, but I thought Pegida were German?
They have, at least, held some pretty big rallies there.
Anyone see their absolutely calamitious here launch by the way? Featuring a certain Mr Robinson.
It really is interesting how someone who claims they are left-wing shares so much rhetoric with the far-right, and does nothing but bash the left.
I am a moderate run of the mill sensible Joe average left wing but hate the extemists on all sides, I dont need to claim anything I know where I am on the political spectrum, if you think the Guardian is the moral comass of the left you are standing too near a magnet, anybody using this bellend and pegida to prove a point concerning the rise of the right needs to work a bit harder, even a rabid facist could see these are extremely bad examples.
Originally posted by @KRG
I havenāt had a chance to read the article, but I thought Pegida were German?
They have, at least, held some pretty big rallies there.
Theyāre not yet a political force; their best result in their stronghold was less than 10% of the vote.
Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez
Originally posted by @KRG
Originally posted by @Barry-Sanchez
Page not open, ah the lefts greatest asset, freedom of speech well unless its the guardianā¦
It really is interesting how someone who claims they are left-wing shares so much rhetoric with the far-right, and does nothing but bash the left.
I am a moderate run of the mill sensible Joe average left wing but hate the extemists on all sides, I dont need to claim anything I know where I am on the political spectrum,
Bazza does love a buzzword.
if you think the Guardian is the moral comass of the left you are standing too near a magnet,
Who said it was?
anybody using this bellend and pegida to prove a point concerning the rise of the right needs to work a bit harder, even a rabid facist could see these are extremely bad examples.
Saying Pegida exist in Germany, and have held big marches is true.
Iām not trying to prove anything regarding the UK arm, other than laugh at their ineptitude.
@asabenn