Well, after the year in lockdown you’d imagine it would be a lot. It was Westminster, not Holyrood, that paid furlough out. We’ll need a proportion of that back. Didn’t hear them complaining about the policy at the time.
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All going off on Joanna Cherry’s feed.
Interesting thread. Looks like this is something of a schism within the SNP.
The Salmond’s v’s the Sturgeon’s.
I think the strugeon’s will win, cavier and all that, more money, higher profile.
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She has not been toeing the line and the party hierarchy has moved the goal posts to stop her turning up in holyrood
She has been bunged out for a couple of reasons.
- Aligned with Salmon
- Gender-critical feminist
The SNP have picked a rather interesting hill to die on. Looks corrupt as fuck to me. Wee Jimmy Krankie as party leader. Her spouse Krankie is Party Chairman, and has already been caught lying to Holyrood.
For FT subscribers, perhaps. Got a paywall when I looked.
Alternative source
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-scottish-independence-economy-b1796411.html
Original document
https://cep.lse.ac.uk/_new/publications/abstract.asp?index=7714
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Cheers for that. Nice to see some meat put on the bones of what I’ve always suspected, that this is just a panacea propped up by the bollocks of the SNP. Perhaps in the 1970s they could have made it as a North Atlantic oil producer, but oil as a main source of fuel is on its way out and in the short term, I can’t see demand getting back to where it was.
Also isn’t it SNP policy to move away from fossil fuels? Not granting any more exploration licences for example.
I remain to be convinced that an independent Scotland is a viable economy (especially given their public spending aspirations). Their whisky sales to the US have been badly hit by tariffs so that is not the cash cow that it was https://www.theguardian.com/food/2021/feb/02/us-tariffs-on-scotch-whisky-have-cost-500m-in-lost-exports
Whilst to some extent most who voted YES last time around would say they dont care about the economic argumentation, if there was greater transparency that was clearly not biassed or agenda driven, it might make a few sit up and take notice. However, as we saw with Brexit, championing localised decision making versus a central one that does not seem to align with your citizens expectations, is a big driver for ignoring any associated hardships.
Many Scots I speak to have a similar view to me… we don’t really care ‘where’ decisions are made, and if honest its not even that important ‘who’ makes them, as ultimately its ‘what’ decisions are made and the impact they have locally… its why many are only now for the first time considering independence. Boris the clown and his Brexit little cronies are a better motivator for independence than the SNP by far…
Many Scots that voted YES last time and certainly many who would be motivated to vote YES now, would reconsider if there was a genuine Government in Westminster that did at least reflect some of the desires and will of the people in Scotland. Obviously its a UK Government that must consider the UK as a whole, but it continues to astound folks up here how such an arsehole was ever voted in, despite his Brexit promise.
Certainly the disparity between England and Scotland was never clearer in the Brexit referendum… Whether an independent Scotland could survive or even join the EU, or whether it would be disastrous , was suddenly no longer a factor. It became much more about the ability to actually influence such a major decision… have a representative voice. One could argue it should have been like the an equal vote for each of the ‘home nations’…like the original pre FIFA IFAB… Its that feeling of having no say on such far reaching decisions that has driven a lot of the more towards independence… at least in principle.
Its probably where I am now, I like the idea more with every day that those arseholes remain in Government… and I suspect we willie Crankie knows the time has never been better given how many feel so sick of him and his ilk… but there needs to be unbiassed transparency on the economic realities os folks can make and informed choice…
We didn’t see remotely the same thing in Brexit.
We saw us leave a 40-odd year project which initially was feted as a trade arrangement. As it became increasingly clear the end goal was a European super-state, the out movement got its wings during Maastricht. eventually flying all the way to the door.
The act of union is over three hundred years old. Scotland is a country of 5.5m that does most of its trade. tariff free, with the SNP’s hated neighbour to the South.
Plenty of people get the fuck out of Scotland already. That’s only going to get worse if the economy contracts by 8%, which I think is probably an underestimate because it doesn’t really consider who’ll be in charge.
The SNP, much like UKIP, will lose their reason to exist and worryingly for them, will run out of people to blame.
You missed the point - this is about folks no longer being comfortable with decision being made without their (as they see it) democratic input. And when the Scots see decisions made by the ‘majority’ in UK that are so different from the Scottish populations democratic choice, its clear now many wish their own ‘sovereignty’ - how is that dissimilar to Uk v EU? The length of time of the ‘union’ or history behind it is frankly irrelevant
Many do leave for work and more diverse opportunities, but plenty also settle here form south of the border or return. I suspect you see Scotland as ‘Trainspottingland’ and not much else as your vitriol is somewhat out of alignment with reality on this one… I have lived here for 18 years of my life, through choice, so I do know a little bit about it. I suspect you are judging Scotland like someone would judge England if they were pinked down in Burnley or some other old school town with a vocal minority of bigoted and racist arseholes. Sure I can head into the cities and seek out plenty of such idiots… but i will many more who are not along the way.
In some sectors yes. That is a reality for many in who might follow Mr Tebbits advice, you forget there are many you live in Scotland who work for Companies down south via remote working etc… something that is also becoming more common as folks seek to get out of city office life.
The question for many will be whether they are prepared to go through some harder times if it meant that independence and the jury is very much out on that one.
Yes there are certainly some within the SNP who do harbour unpleasant views, but its not the majority in my experience as an English person who has lived here for quite some time. Many who are now considering independence are not even SNP voters.
Most in the SNP are comfortable with that. Indeed Scotland would most likely return to clear labour majority provided there was someone sensible in charge not stuck in 1972.
How far down the line do you go with this though
Scotland don’t feel represented by Westminster - the answer is independence
Orkney doesn’t feel represented by Holyrood - is the answer independence from Scotland
Kettleloft doesn’t feel represented by Kirkwall - independence again?
What is the smallest size a state can get to before it is not feasible
Now I admit that my third example is intended to be ridiculous, but the second example has already been mooted. They are unionists and want to remain that way.
This is absolute, the Islands are massively Unionist or Shetland and Orkney defo are, they’ll also take the oil money with them if they remain in union with the Union, many see themselves as Islanders first then British second then Scottish.
Unionism in Scotland is far far more robust that the populist SNP imagine, I really do think that, if Scotland goes independent they will not be able to legitimately stop a devolution process being applied in any area that wants it.
The UK would welcome them.
They’ve got a devolved Parliament. They’ve got representatives in Westminster too, so their interests actually have more democratic structures than the English.
That position is completely untenable. I wouldn’t expect the Mad Nats to know that, but I expect you to.
Nonsense, sure voting on English only issues is not necessary by whilst we re a UK, there has to be representation voting on issues that impact on Scotland taken in Westminster… unless you devolve everything which is in effect independence…
They have representation, or are the SNP in Westminster just holograms?
They have more representation than the English. Your point is bollocks.
Every area they’ve had autonomy over they’ve fucked up, and that’s because they have no interest in governing.