Brilliant, you’re now lecturing me on the profession I’ve been working in for the last decade. How long have you been teaching for (or working in the public sector for that matter)?
You are quite right, of course, this argument is not about me. However, when you question my professional integrity I think I’m entitled to defend myself.
Tbf, Bearsy, I genuinely prefer lower ability kids anyway. I can mark their work in half the time because they never fucking write anything.
Er, nope. I’ve related my own personal experiences, I happen to get on with many of these people very well and have told them the exact same thing to their faces. They were less animated in person about it than people have been on here in text.
I also can’t help thinking there is an element of “the cap fits” about your moan about my observations. How do they apply to you? Why do they insult you? These are people I know. I’ve said the exact same things to their faces, and they were less insulted than you appear to be.
This thread has shown that educational outcomes are no better for independently educated kids (indeed, a wee bit worse), so I am left wondering what the fuck that money buys. Let me repeat. Statistically, you are not getting better outcomes, which sort of puts paid to all the bollocks about the state system not being good enough.
Moreover, there are plenty of choices and/or actions you can take to improve your kids’ chances. If your kid can already read and write when she hits reception, there’s a strong chance she’ll be moved up a year and be given extra challenges throughout their state educations. You can get involved in your local school, petition your representatives, or you can move.
I understand why the establishment send their kids to private schools, and no-one is going to disagree with me if I repeat my grenade claim of not wanting their kids to mix with the wrong kids in that context.
Unfortunately, I think I understand why parents who really can’t afford it, or really couldn’t afford it if VAT was applied - send their kids to fee-payers too. It’s a lottery ticket to the elite, a chance for their offspring to mix with the right sort of kids and something to boast about in Waitrose.
It’s this insidious social climbing aspect of it that I hate. It speaks of people not liking who they are, not liking where they came from, wanting something “better” for their kids, without really having a fucking clue of what “better” actually is, at least not for their child.
Is it really better to wrap your kids in some educational cotton wool until they’re eighteen, shielding them from the realities of the world in a fee-payer?
What happens to the kids that aren’t that bright when they start and aren’t much brighter when they finish? I trust that all of the parents of independently educated low academic achievers are happy paying a quarter of a mil for three E’s at A level, especially when they couldn’t really afford it.
I didn’t say that and I’m not apologising.
I appreciate that the post you refer to is harsh in isolation.
@thecholulakid replied to a post that I wrote about the “wrong kind” of kids. For whatever reason, he then talked about kids with behavioural difficulties, a subset of the wrong type of kids, citing the reality of being a parent knowing that his child is not being catered for, with the strong implication it was okay to send kids somewhere else in that situation.
Did you bother reading that research paper, Pap? It researched the role of the A* grade as a predictor of university performance. Just the A*. No other grade predictor/performance was researched. The total % of grades awarded at A* has been roughly 8% since it was introduced - your assertion above is a bit of a stretch in that context.
The trend of state schools outperfoming fee payers is not a new one.
Check out this report from 1998, citing research from 1992. Previous research from the 80s by Oxford University drew the same broad conclusions.
A study from Cardiff and Aberdeen universities of 60,000 students who went to university in 1992 found former independent school pupils were a fifth less likely to graduate with a first-class degree than those who went to a comprehensive.
Dr Bob McNabb, of Cardiff Business School, one of the authors, said: “Independent schools get their pupils better A-level results for their motivation and ability than state schools do. When everyone arrives at university, things change. People from comprehensives appear to be very motivated and have something extra which enables them to do well.”
Sorry pap but this proves you’ve gone mental. They don’t waste their money on the kid with no hope. He/She gets dumped straight back into the local comp. They’re smart people remember.
Kid turned out a heroin addict anyway.
They felt justified. Blamed the state.
Smart people.
You said it was snobbery. I was simply pointing out that for some parents it won’t be snobbery but a genuine concern that their kids’ needs won’t be met in the current environment.
For some parents it undoubtedly is snobbery.
Makes sense. I currently teach 60 kids at A level - I have to leave them to their own devices to some extent so they have no choice but to develop their independent learning skills. In my new place I’ll be teaching 6 kids at A level. Great for me - not so good for them perhaps.
Blimey, just read the last couple of pages of this and flicked randomly through a few beforehand. Looks like Pap is making a right tit of himself and even making Bazza sound like the ‘voice of reason’ 
I think I’ll just sidle away and leave this thread well alone.
I take a longer term view of the education system. a more pragmatic one too. If I wanted to be finickity, I could give you a laundry list of complaints about aspects of my kids’ needs not being met. A very recent example, the piss poor commitment to ICT, particularly at a time when we’re trying to get more women into technology, and especially because they call themselves a technical school.
That same school also got my eldest into a red brick, my youngest a GCSE at fourteen, an A level (hopefully) at seventeen and a clear path to four A levels and a potential Oxbridge spot if she wants it. They’ve put her, and others into a programme that helps acclimatise them to the Oxbridge settings.
A|ong the way, both of my kids have met kids from all other walks of life. I find it amazing that @barry-sanchez cannot find decent education in posh Cressington while the inner city primary my kids attended was churning out classfuls of Year 8 bilinguals, performers and musicians - and still is. The head now runs two schools along the same lines.
My point is that the public sector still recognises talent, and there are still schools doing amazing work out there. I can appreciate why you’d want to enumerate all the problems of the state system in your present situation and I’ll admit to being equally self-justifying on certain matters.
On the issue of state vs independent, I didn’t want it for myself when I didn’t need to pay for it. Didn’t need it for my kids either, and would have not have wanted it. I might have insisted ms pap play the Catholic card to get the kids into the best primary in the area, and it might have been painfully obvious that’s what we were up to when our kids got christened at eight and four respectively.
As someone that went to a school that had its own failings, I know it’s more about the kid in the school than the school the kid goes to.
Stick around, only 15 pages in. By the time we get to page 30 @pap talks @thecholulakid into going back to a state school and selling his children(no point keeping them if he never sees them) to help pay for @barry-sanchez to send his kids to a really expensive school, where no one ever ends up a heroin addict(except Will Self, but that’s ok because he’s achingly witty and very rich).
I won’t spoil anymore, but page 117 is the best.
Downvoted. You can downvote “me too”.
ESLA is the nearest to me, St Margarets is well over subscribed and Calderstones is poor as well, an area doesn’t guarantee good schools, I ask again what would you do in my situation, Parklands was closed by the council for being one of the worst in the Country, the replacement is just as bad and has lost 200 pupils since its opening and this is not “posh” people taking them out this is people from Speke so again I ask you for advice what should I do?
I have said I don’t agree with tiered systems but as long as the system is poorer in certain places than others what can you do?
We aren’t talking about a snobbery issue like Saint thinks as he quite frankly hasn’t seen Speke and is talking out of ignorance, if you have a chance you get out and why would I deny my kids that on a principle I believe, what a selfish self righteous cunt I would be to deny my children a better opportunity. There is no way am I playing roulette on education where it is so fucking poor, why put on another who can’t decide.
I’ll happily take hypocrite all day long.
Which doesn’t invalidate the point. Dressed up as sympathetically as you like, the parents won’t send their kids there because there are too many kids there with learning and/or behavioural difficulties. It boils down to the same thing, and it’s not something unique to independents.
Even before league tables were introduced, we still had the concept of a school with a bad name, justifiably so in some cases. State school parents wouldn’t want to send their kids there, and you still see state school parents complaining or celebrating that their kid got in, or not, to a well regarded state school.
For some parents it undoubtedly is snobbery.
Quite. Those state school parents don’t go whacking 20K a year on an independent. They usually find the best school for their kids, and if they’re smart about it, they do it years in advance.
There is no way am I playing roulette on education where it is so fucking poor on another who can’t decide.
I understand what the first part of the sentence means but I’m not sure what the last half means…any chance of some enlightment, @barry-sanchez ?
You normally bitch and moan when others downvote but dont explain why.
I was trying to edit but it fucking won’t let me, I was attemtpting to say, why should I put on another who can’t decide.
Wouldn’t it be cheaper to move than pay 20K per year (or whatever it is then) per kid?
Top schools in Kenny, la. 
Saint would say I am running away from the issue, he seems to think life is like that Falling Down movie, sadly its not.