Any decent leader would lead by example.
Ouch.
A split in the split?
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Smith has the delicate task of attacking the head chef while selling people the quality of a restaurant and a menu that he intends to tweak.
To me he is failing to do that, so he’s just demonstrating that the kitchen at Bistro Labour is full of rats - and his call for change gives the impression that they keep raw chicken on a warm hob next to uncovered salad.
My view on a potential split is that it’ll very much depend on the mandate the winning candidate receives. Far too early to count chickens, but it probably isn’t unreasonable to assume that Corbyn gets an even bigger mandate than before.
Should that happen, where would Labour MPs planning to split derive their legitimacy? Certainly not from the ballot box. They’ll have been beaten in two stabs at the leadership. How do they get to say “we’re right and the rest of the membership is wrong”? Again?
It may happen, but let’s face it - it’ll be no gang of four moment. The plotters have been at it for a year. I reckon their only shot of winning is through the High Court case being decided upon tomorrow, and even that would be a pyrrhic victory. Owen Smith is their best, and I just can’t see him cutting it.
I think there’s a fair chance that he’s going to be electorally embarrassed.
The best leader Labour could have is currently loyal to Corbyn but unlike him can win a GE. Burnham.
Originally posted by @Flahute
The best leader Labour could have is currently loyal to Corbyn but unlike him can win a GE. Burnham.
That wasn’t the view of the membership when they elected Corbyn, with Burnham in the contest. It doesn’t appear to be Burnham’s view now.
I like Burnham. He originally came across as a bit lightweight when I first saw him, but I’ve a lot of respect for his work on Hillsborough and the respect he has shown to the Labour membership. That said, he’s nowhere near as radical as Corbyn and co. I’d much rather see someone like Richard Burgon get the nod.
Burnham is left wing and electable. Corbyn is just left wing. He should see off Smith then stand aside and anoint Burnham.
Labour stays left wing and then can win a GE.
You know you can’t credibly keep saying Corbyn isn’t electable with zero justification, and with plenty of evidence to the contrary, right?
You’re just parroting a discredited headline, like a lot of other folk.
You keep believing that. Corbyn can’t win a GE without the middle ground voters and everything points to them not wanting him. You can’t or won’t concieve of this as you are to immersed in Momentum to see any other viewpoint. To you a few wards and by-elections equates to the cusp of victory.
Lets see how he gets on in places like Stafford, a typical swing seat, and I’m willing to bet he’d not win.
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How long has Corbyn got in terms of age. He is 67 now, will be 71 in GE year and 76 at the end of the first term. The workload for a PM is not unsubstantial - they all look knackered when they leave office. Can someone in their seventies cope?
(dodges incoming for the forum old farts)
It is a job that sticks ten years on you immediately.
You rarely see a retiring PM and think, wow, don’t they look well.
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Originally posted by @Flahute
You keep believing that. Corbyn can’t win a GE without the middle ground voters and everything points to them not wanting him.
I remember asking you for your definition of middle ground voters. I believe the answer was you, basically.
That is not the centre ground, and as I said before, you don’t unseat governments by promising the status quo with a slightly nicer bedside manner, as most hopefuls find out.
You can’t or won’t concieve of this as you are to immersed in Momentum to see any other viewpoint. To you a few wards and by-elections equates to the cusp of victory.
I haven’t been to a single Momentum meeting. I only joined after the coup thing began, so haven’t had the time, really. At no point have I ever been as optimistic as you’re making out.
It really is simple claim vs counter-claim stuff. You say he is unelectable. I point out that he’s won elections. Doesn’t need to be anything more complex than that.
You really are getting quite inventive, and not in a good way.
Lets see how he gets on in places like Stafford, a typical swing seat, and I’m willing to bet he’d not win.
Yep. Let’s see. You’ve got to remember that 34% of the electorate didn’t vote last time out.
“‘It pained me that we didn’t have the strength and the power and the vitality to smash her back on her heels.”
Tried to clarify afterwards that it was just rhetoric, but Smith has form for trivialising domestic violence.
Owen Smith in 2010: “The Liberals will file for divorce as soon as the bruises start to show through the make-up” bbc.co.uk/news/10156864
They said on Radio when I was Driving that Survey Says the ppl don’t want Corbyn Prime Minister, they prefer Hate My Arse, and the Conservative Lead over Labour is biggest since 2010 srs
The polls plummeted post-coup, Bear.
Labour were either neck or neck or ahead in most polls beforehand.
In their bid to remove an “unelectable” leader, they’ve made the party less electable as a whole, with the ringleaders sealing their fates after the election.
Originally posted by @pap
“‘It pained me that we didn’t have the strength and the power and the vitality to smash her back on her heels.”
Tried to clarify afterwards that it was just rhetoric, but Smith has form for trivialising domestic violence.
Owen Smith in 2010: “The Liberals will file for divorce as soon as the bruises start to show through the make-up” bbc.co.uk/news/10156864
Hardly worthy of note, let alone the implication that his rhetoric is Trump-esque in its misogyny.
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Originally posted by @pap
The polls plummeted post-coup, Bear.
Labour were either neck or neck or ahead in most polls beforehand.
In their bid to remove an “unelectable” leader, they’ve made the party less electable as a whole, with the ringleaders sealing their fates after the election.
Yeah prob. Maybe ppl prefer Hate My Arse to Drone Cam Diva tho also.
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Twitter disagrees.
He had to spend the tail end of his speech explicitly explaining that he doesn’t condone violence, on account of stuff he’d said in that speech.
That is not a successful speech.
Gordon Brown had a honeymoon period, Bear 