Keeping Corbin as leader is leaving the Labour party lagging then I see…
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Originally posted by @pap
Originally posted by @Fowllyd
All well and good, but my point was that you’re treating anybody who expresses even mild doubts about Corbyn as if they’re part of the over-represented, privileged and entitled minority that you deplore. My view is that this simply isn’t the case. Yes, anybody in that group will be opposed to Corbyn, but opposition to Corbyn does not presuppose membership of that group.
I don’t think that’s the case at all. It’s simply business as usual from this particular poster. If you can point me to any instance of a respectful post where I’ve disrespected the poster or the content, fair enough.
If you’re referring to me finally losing my rag with someone that variously tried to make out I was mental, closed-minded, or both, based on nothing but rote repetition of a tabloid headline, and in defiance of actual elections, then I don’t think that’s fair.
I’ve said throughout that there is a bullied component of this coup, so I don’t even think I’ve created the impression that the Bitterites are all 172. I’ve frequently mentioned ringleaders, which strongly implies that people are involved to different degrees.
I think you’re missing my point by several streets here to be honest. My point is that in many of your posts on this subject, you label anyone not 100% supportive of Corbyn as being 100% supportive of those MPs who plotted to oust him. This has applied to anyone, not just posters on this site. As an example, is JK Rowling strongly supportive of Blair/Blair’s followers/the right wing of the Labour Party generally? Has she supported cuts to welfare payments? I don’t know the answer to those questions, and I suspect that you don’t either. But, because she has expressed dissatisfaction with Corbyn’s leadership, you’re happy to lump her into that category. Do you see what I’m getting at?
It’s not a question of being polite and respectful, and I wouldn’t say you’ve been rude or disrespectful. That really wasn’t my point at all.
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Surely corban can’t lose to a woman
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Originally posted by @Fowllyd
I think you’re missing my point by several streets here to be honest. My point is that in many of your posts on this subject, you label anyone not 100% supportive of Corbyn as being 100% supportive of those MPs who plotted to oust him. This has applied to anyone, not just posters on this site. As an example, is JK Rowling strongly supportive of Blair/Blair’s followers/the right wing of the Labour Party generally? Has she supported cuts to welfare payments? I don’t know the answer to those questions, and I suspect that you don’t either. But, because she has expressed dissatisfaction with Corbyn’s leadership, you’re happy to lump her into that category. Do you see what I’m getting at?
It’s not a question of being polite and respectful, and I wouldn’t say you’ve been rude or disrespectful. That really wasn’t my point at all.
She’s evidently not stupid. She, like the rest of us, knows how badly the rebels have brought the Party into disrepute, knows the calibre of the buggers that’ll be left, and yet despite all that, when their actions are known, she validates them by deciding to use her public profile to come down on the site of the plotters.
That wouldn’t have been true four weeks ago, but it certainly is now.
What would you rather the PLP do Pap?
The great majority do not believe in Corbyn or his leadership and strongly believe that the leadership election was banjaxed by Momentum supporters and the odd Tory on a wind up. Should they meekly roll over and let Corbyn have his way? Should they just be honest and call him a cunt? Resign the whip? Or should they work to replace him with who they feel is more representative of the public at large and not just the ploitical activist?
The PLP was elected by the public under a Milliband mandate, not the JC mandate - surely the PLP should be true to what they believe in? Wouldn’t they be hypocritical if they didn’t? Isn’t JC commended for sticking to his principles eg defying party policy as leader over the Trident vote?
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Originally posted by @CB-Saint
What would you rather the PLP do Pap?
The great majority do not believe in Corbyn or his leadership and strongly believe that the leadership election was banjaxed by Momentum supporters and the odd Tory on a wind up. Should they meekly roll over and let Corbyn have his way? Should they just be honest and call him a cunt? Resign the whip? Or should they work to replace him with who they feel is more representative of the public at large and not just the ploitical activist?
The PLP was elected by the public under a Milliband mandate, not the JC mandate - surely the PLP should be true to what they believe in? Wouldn’t they be hypocritical if they didn’t? Isn’t JC commended for sticking to his principles eg defying party policy as leader over the Trident vote?
They should have tried working with him from the start. They didn’t. They cannot complain about how crap his leadership might be when they’ve done everything possible to make it harder or undermine him.
If they did have a beef, they should have gathered the nominations and made the challenge. That’s it.
There was no need for the 17 days of bullying and bloodletting that they tried if they’d simply submitted to the democratic process. At every stage, they’ve attempted to subvert democracy.
Have a look at the two candidates they got to come forward and tell me that either of those are more electable than Corbyn. Do you _honestly _think most of those candidates got their mandate because of their winning personalities and representational skills, or do you think it’s because they were the Labour candidate.
It’s all built on a house of cards, and for all the bollocks about them splitting, the real lesson of the SDP from the 1980s is that all but one of the splitters lost their seats at the election because they weren’t called Labour.
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Its not like JC actually worked with his party leaders whilst he was on the back benches, doesn’t he hold the record for defying the whip? Maybe he should have resigned the whip then and stood as an independant, because he certainly didn’t get elected because of his winning personality and represntational skills.
If there was a split, chances are the numbers would be large enough that the new party would become the official opposition - that would give them legitimacy and more importantly airtime and labour under corbyn would be marginalised. If it happens now, then the public will have enough time to come to terms with the difference.
You underestimate the power of safe seats, and the number of rebels presently in them.
At the 5pm deadline 183,541 paid £25 as a registered supporter to vote in #LabourLeadership netting the party £4.588m in revenue
Dear lord is there no end to these Stalinists?
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You’re still doing it. I’ll leave it there as I don’t think you get what I’m on about.
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Originally posted by @pap
At the 5pm deadline 183,541 paid £25 as a registered supporter to vote in #LabourLeadership netting the party £4.588m in revenue
Nice little earner, a couple of these a year and they won’t have to nosh off Len McClusky every year.
fking capitalists
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I do, believe it or not, Fowllyd. The actions of the PLP rebels are something I simply can’t get past. They’re a slap in the face to both the membership, and democracy, particularly as the smear campaign spilled over onto the Corbyn supporters in the past couple of weeks. It has gotten personal, and the vast majority of the nasty stuff is one way traffic.
We’ve got an equal stake in the game, but I think it’s fair to say that at this point, I’m more emotionally invested, and I’m not alone.
I’m disgusted with their antics and can’t look past them. I wonder how others can. I don’t think it’ll matter. They’ve had all year to plot, which has completely gone to shit. The best candidate they can conjure is someone that no-one has ever heard of until now, and is having his carefully cultivated persona dismantled on social media by those awkward buggers with facts.
I guess we’ll see how popular their actions are.
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To be fair Pap, I hadn’t heard of JC until the bugger got elected!
That may well be the case. but he has long been known as one of the leading left and anti-war figures. I completely take your point though. I was at an event at KCL a few years ago, in which Tariq Ali referenced Corbyn, simply asking what place did he have in the Labour Party of that time.
It was a perfectly rational point at the time which looks both ridiculous and relevant in hindsight.
Ridiculous because the public have delivered a verdict, time and again - relevant because the PLP rebels cannot accept the answer.
Here’s an interesting fact. More people paid 25UKP to vote in the Labour leadership election as supporters than presently exist in the Conservative Party.
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What is really intriguing is whether the 25 pounders are pro or anti Corbyn
what was his winning margin last time in headcount
The Progress faction have been encouraging entryism throughout. The expectation is that the majority of those voters are pro-Corbyn. If, miraculously, the registered supporters turn out to be supporting the continuing right wing dream, questions will be asked, particularly when many of them have received large donations from known Blairite donors like Eccleston.
OK, I get where you’re coming from. I still think you’re wrong to label all those opposed to Corbyn as allied to the plotters, but at least I understand your reasoning! 
Nice little factoid about relative numbers (Labour vs Tory parties) there too!
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So that’s how they’ll face their CLPs.
By suspending them!
“Saving Labour” is a laugh, innit?
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