Originally posted by @pap
Originally posted by @CB-Saint
Just listened to Radio 5 Live - they had Angela Raynor on. She was terrible - almost ranting. Now I know JC has limited options for people for his front bench, but if that is the calibre of what he is using to challenge the govt. then the govt and particularly Justine Grewening are in for an easy ride.
She’s three weeks into the job, and she reflects the people she represents more than any Tory.
She might be three weeks into a job (and an MP for a year) but she sounds to me like she is hopelessly out of her depth. I may be wrong, but my first impression is not good at all.
Originally posted by @CB-Saint
Originally posted by @pap
Originally posted by @CB-Saint
Just listened to Radio 5 Live - they had Angela Raynor on. She was terrible - almost ranting. Now I know JC has limited options for people for his front bench, but if that is the calibre of what he is using to challenge the govt. then the govt and particularly Justine Grewening are in for an easy ride.
She’s three weeks into the job, and she reflects the people she represents more than any Tory.
She might be three weeks into a job (and an MP for a year) but she sounds to me like she is hopelessly out of her depth. I may be wrong, but my first impression is not good at all.
There aren’t many people that are completely comfortable with a huge promotion three weeks afterward. I’ve seen her over the year as a constituency MP.
She was a single mother at 16 and she’s now an MP. We should be holding her up as someone that other young women can look up to. I’ve seen some of her speeches over the year and am glad to have her on the front bench.
She might have done well for herself and she may go on to have a successful career in politics, however, as you say, it is a huge promotion, maybe too much too soon which could have a detrimental impact on her career, not to mention the effectiveness of the opposition.
and don’t you start with "as a mother "shite as well 
All I’m referring to is that it’s bloody hard raising kids at that age. I was 20 when my first came along, and that was hard enough with two of us working toward it.
If she’s done all that, and managed to become an MP, that’s bloody good going.
So JK Rowling is joining an ever increasing list of celebrities saying Corbyn should go!!
Oh, I’m a celbrity and I wrote lots of books and made lots of money so I’m a good reflection of a real labour supporter.
The most hypocritical thing about her stance is that she was on benefits prior to getting rich, famously writing bits of Harry Potter in a cafe. She’d deny the state support that she relied on to others.
I have to say the whole £25 thing is pretty shit. They should just have a rule that says that you have to be a member for xmonths before you are eligible to vote. That way it’s clear and you can avoid the “ballot stuffing” risk.
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They’ve been planning the coup from the moment he was elected. They had a good three months to get their people in. They’ve had two days to get their registered supporters online for £25 a pop. The question is whether more people are joining for Corbyn spontaneously than are joining to oust him as part of co-ordinated schemes.
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I bet this wasn’t the legacy that Ed milliband envisaged when he created the election rules
i’ve done it. £25 to help keep democracy is cheap(for some). Such a shame that some don’t believe it should be a right for everyone irrespective of income.
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Originally posted by @pap
The most hypocritical thing about her stance is that she was on benefits prior to getting rich, famously writing bits of Harry Potter in a cafe. She’d deny the state support that she relied on to others.
You’re better than that, Pap. Right?
It ain’t like she’s gone all right wing tho is it? She just thinks Corbyn is an unelectable weird-beard, for some reason.
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I’ve just caught PMQs - it seems that someone has advised the PM to do an impression of Thatcher and also to ignore all questions and instead plod through a tired script of badly-written jibes.
As a result she looks quite unlikable…
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What? I’m not going to pretend I’ve never been a hypocrite.
Perhaps I’d be a Blairite if I was fucking minted too. The point is that much of the support she relied on has been eroded by the Tories, with the wing of the party she favours complicit in that happening.
This might be of interest to you, pap - always assuming you didn’t already know about it, of course…
Ewen McAskill on Liverpool and Labour
On another subject, you do seem to be straying somewhat into “if you’re not with us you’re with our enemies” territory, reminiscent of Dubya’s famous post-9/11 broadcast. The Labour party isn’t divided into Corbynistas and Blairites, but you’re certainly portraying it that way. You’ve done it when debating with Flahute earlier in this thread, you’re doing it with JK Rowling now. I have no idea if she is a staunch Blair-lover who has supported welfare cuts and would cheerfully do so again; what I do know is that her opposition to Corbyn does not mean that this is all that she can possibly be.
I was talking to an old friend at the weekend whose political views are very much on the left - she’s cerainly no fan of Blair or his minions. But she has very little time for Corbyn either, for a number of reasons. On the evidence of this thread, you’d be labelling her something that she isn’t, purely on the basis of her non-support of Corbyn.
Seriously mucker, I didn’t set the terms of this debate. The plotters did when they kicked it all off. People have described this in terms which some may view hyperbolic, but I view as completely on the money. Whatever you think of my partisanship on this issue, it’s as nothing compared to the baseless smears that we’ve had to endure.
When people are claiming you are something you are not, you get miffed, collectively so in this instance. I’ve spoke far more on Twitter than I have here on the issue, and I’ve had some pro-Corbyn people say some fairly nasty stuff about anti-Corbyn people which in my view, is completely gratuitous. I shot the pro-Corbyn peeps down on those occasions.
I don’t think those that have continually briefed against Corbyn have any place in the Labour Party, and that is not an uncommon view. I genuinely don’t want to fight with Flahute either, but he was giving me bugger all to work with. As someone that maintains multiple hypothetical universes for the sake of an open mind, my response to his refrain may have been (ahem) spiky.
I do really think the issue is a contest between an over-represented, privileged and entitled minority versus a newly engaged majority that wants anything but what they’re offering. The rebels’ conduct in this coup alone has put them massively at odds with Labour Party values. Independent studies have proved the collusion of the media in trying to frame impressions of Corbyn.
Given what the PLP rebels did to get here, can they ever be trusted again? I’m sorry, but if a wing of the party is prepared to smear the whole party with the vilest taboos just to get its own way, then I really can’t help thinking that is something quite different from your average Labour Party member.
Really don’t want to get involved in these threads again atm. But, I too met with a friend recently who says very similar.
She, up until the last election worked for the MP in the constituency she grew up (deliberately not mentioning exactly where, so as to protect identities). She is an ardent Labour supporter, and is no fan of Blair. The MP she worked for represents a Northern constituency, very much a Labour stronghold.
My friend tells me that her former employer is regularly getting word from local residents that they simply do not connect with Corbyn. They say he doesn’t speak much on the things they see as affecting them, with there also being comments that he is disconnected with life outside the Westminister bubble or a “Student Protestor that never grew up” vibe.
Again, not my views. But what I was told.
I can actually see some weird similarities with what is happening with Trump (obviously not at all, policy-wise), or perhaps Bernie. I think Corbyn is capable of being both immensely popular, and unpopular at the same time. Whilst he can galvanise vocal support in some areas/demographics, he can also turn people away in droves. I’m sure he isn’t the first to do this, and won’t be the last. But it does create a weird disconnect.
Do agree with Fowllyd above. I don’t think it’s as simple as Blairites vs Corbynista’s or whatever you want to call any of them. There are plenty of people that have concerns about Corbyn’s leadership, and it’s not just to do with Blair, or his (admittedly disgusting) portrayal in the media.
Sorry, I don’t really wish to get into any debates/discussions/slapfights here. So I’m just going to leave this here.
pap, if you do wish to scream at me. You know how to get in touch
All well and good, but my point was that you’re treating anybody who expresses even mild doubts about Corbyn as if they’re part of the over-represented, privileged and entitled minority that you deplore. My view is that this simply isn’t the case. Yes, anybody in that group will be opposed to Corbyn, but opposition to Corbyn does not presuppose membership of that group.
I don’t think that’s the case at all. It’s simply business as usual from this particular poster. If you can point me to any instance of a respectful post where I’ve disrespected the poster or the content, fair enough.
If you’re referring to me finally losing my rag with someone that variously tried to make out I was mental, closed-minded, or both, based on nothing but rote repetition of a tabloid headline, and in defiance of actual elections, then I don’t think that’s fair.
I’ve said throughout that there is a bullied component of this coup, so I don’t even think I’ve created the impression that the Bitterites are all 172. I’ve frequently mentioned ringleaders, which strongly implies that people are involved to different degrees.
Frankie Boyle has something to say on Labour. The whole thing is worth a read, was intended for the Guardian until they pulled it.
I’m not judging Labour’s behaviour so far in their election. Trying to exclude your core demographic by charging 25 quid is exactly what I did on my last stand up tour. Perhaps what non members like me don’t understand is that all this talk of “Labour family” is more than a metaphor, and they really do all fucking hate each other. We all marvelled at the way the Tory shield wall closed during their election, at the sheer brutal efficacy of it, in the same way that Ian Holm’s android in Alien purred over the efficiency of the film’s predator. It’s admirable I’m sure, but let’s remember that no good will come of it. There’s nothing to say that a soft-left candidate who echoed some of the Conservative’s concerns about immigration couldn’t make a better Labour leader, except for the last election where they tried that and it totally didn’t work. But that’s politics isn’t it? It’s all about opinions. I mean I suppose there are some people in Iraq, Libya and Syria who might view the concern over a brick going through Angela Eagle’s office window with a certain ironic detachment, if they still had the Internet, or indeed eyes. The spirit of the times was perhaps best captured when Owen Smith launched his candidacy by going on Andrew Marr to announce that he would be happy to instigate a nuclear holocaust, as Marr prepared to throw over to a country trio called Applewood Road.