And there is the paradox. The more he distances himself from the centre the more the tory press will destroy him despite the left wanting to clense themselves of the Blar stench, the centre needs to be won to form a government.
1 Like
I don’t disagree with the summary but Labour can’t form a government just by winning seats in its traditional heartlands. If it doesn’t win the centre ground then it loses. I don’t think it can do that under Corbyn. Need a left wing David Miliband type; appeals to the left and is media savvy etc to win over middle England.
What are your ideological differences with Corbyn?
You need the media, you need support of business, and some undesirables.
Sadly I suspect you cannot win an election in 2016 without smiling sweetly and getting into bed with a bunch of cunts.
2 Likes
I have none. I just view him as unelectable to the populace at large.
Flahute is right. It’s great showing those Blairites a bloody nose etc. A Labour Party under Corbyn just will not form a government. Then what’s the point?
Originally posted by @Flahute
I don’t disagree with the summary but Labour can’t form a government just by winning seats in its traditional heartlands. If it doesn’t win the centre ground then it loses. I don’t think it can do that under Corbyn. Need a left wing David Miliband type. Appeals to the left and is media savvy etc to win over middle England.
The last thing we need is a David Miliband. The actual one had one of the worst canvassing rates in the country. His CLP encountered a shitload of difficulty getting him elected, because he was perceived to be doing nowt for them. He abandoned said constituents when he lost the Labour leadership to his brother. If this is your template, I want a better template.
Thatcher did not win elections by promoting the status quo, nor did Blair, but this is precisely what you are advocating when promoting the aims of this dying faction. You win by promising the centre ground the promised land, not by subcsribing to the status quo.
See my post about the centre ground.
Actually, just look around your local area. Tristram Hunt is a prime candidate for deselection.
The Labour members you live amongst overwhelmingly voted for Corbyn. The general public you live around will appreciate his policies. How do you know better than them? And how, if you’re living in the North West, do you get a handle of the mood of the south?
Not dick-waving here. Genuinely interested in how you’ve formed your impressions.
Originally posted by @pap
Originally posted by @Flahute
I don’t disagree with the summary but Labour can’t form a government just by winning seats in its traditional heartlands. If it doesn’t win the centre ground then it loses. I don’t think it can do that under Corbyn. Need a left wing David Miliband type. Appeals to the left and is media savvy etc to win over middle England.
The last thing we need is a David Miliband. The actual one had one of the worst canvassing rates in the country. His CLP encountered a shitload of difficulty getting him elected, because he was perceived to be doing nowt for them. He abandoned said constituents when he lost the Labour leadership to his brother. If this is your template, I want a better template.
Thatcher did not win elections by promoting the status quo, nor did Blair, but this is precisely what you are advocating when promoting the aims of this dying faction. You win by promising the centre ground the promised land.
Unsurprisingly you read in what you want and not what I’ve written.
What I said is we need a left wing version of Miliband. Policies and electability. Corbyn has the former and not the latter.
The Corbyn faction are fighting a battle but will the lose the real war.
1 Like
Who is that candidate then? It’s certainly not Eagle or Smith, who seem to be the only 2 willing to put themselves forward.
Corbyn will at the very least establish his politics on a national scale, and they are very populist policies. Presented in the right way he could win an election off the back of that. You don’t have to be a smarmy GMTV cunt like Cameron to get people’s votes, you just have to have a clear message that works and stick to it - exactly what the Leave campaign did to their gain (and everyone elses loss) in the referendum.
Hunt isn’t my MP. I live in Stafford, not Stoke. He’s also a cunt who should never have been an MP in Stoke.
Stafford is as middle England as you’ll find. My wife and her friends, and mine, are as middle England as they come. All think he’s unelectable. To win a GE you need to win seats like Stafford.
My family, all Labour, all South, think Corbyn is unelectable.
The only people I know who would vote for him are those who’d vote Labour regardless. I include myself in that at a GE.
You’re so blinkered that no matter what it doesn’t matter what I or anyone else says, your mind is made up. It’s always been your major shortcoming.
1 Like
The Labour Party will split now. It’s not about Blair, or New Labour or the Iraq War. Jo Cox’s husband pleaded for some sanity after people threw a brick into Angela Eagle’s constituency office window.
Fuck knows and I’ve never pretended to know.
If you don’t think that you need a media savvy, smooth operator to win the media war against the tory and their press then, sadly, you’re gong to be bitterly disappointed.
The Corbyn faction will win a battle but lose the real war. I really, really do hope I’m wrong.
Like I say, all you need is a clear message. The Tory machine is super fucking greasy but they can be pinned down by their complete economic failing since assuming power 6 years ago. The election pledges they got in on (get rid of deficit, migration to tens of k’s etc) have all failed catastrophically and we now have somebody in charge who the electorate did not vote for to be their PM. Labour can win an election under JC if they stick to their main message and actually unite behind their leader, which may be easier said than done at the moment but i’m sure will be easy enough to do once they get a sniff at power.
2 Likes
Originally posted by @Flahute
You’re so blinkered that no matter what it doesn’t matter what I or anyone else says, your mind is made up. It’s always been your major shortcoming.
Some would say that’s being a signpost, not a weathervane. Different terminology for different times, I guess.
I think you’re seriously underestimating the tories and the press. They’ll have, quite easily I’d imagine, have the message of a split Labour party deeply implanted in the mind of the Brits. Divided parties don’t win elections.
Lynton Crosby and his dog whistle pr
1 Like
The press will play into it hugely, undoubtedly. That didn’t stop Yes campaigners in Scotland though - effectively all of the main media was pushing the No line but social media has hugely changed how messages can be communicated and I think it’s helped to take a lot of the spin off reporting. JC has done very well recently to dispel a lot of the press talk about his position and highlight some of the ludicrous things that have been chucked about in the press, that can be carried into an election although you’re quite right in saying that you can’t understate the role that the media can play in this - it’s just about how you can manage that.
Unfortunatly I completely agree and believe that although David Millaband didn’t win most think Labour would have done a lot better in the last election if he had won instead of Ed.
Corbyn may have great left wing policies and the strongest backing of the Labour party members but that still won’t win the election as most middle of the road voters will not vote for them no matter how good the policies are.
The Conservatives will just paint it as giving power back to the unions and all the employed paying masses to the unemployed to sit around and whether you have a strong message or not the people will beleive the hype, which is exatly what always happens and at the moment the Conservatives have a better PR machine.
I like Jeremy Corbyn, he’s a decent guy just way out of his depth 
1 Like