The best thing about being in opposition is you can have wonderful dreams and ambitions safe in the knowledge that they’ll never get implemented.
Well done on ensuring a continued tory government hammering the poor as there is no way that Corbyn will beat May (I bloody hope I’m wrong about that but I’m not).
Originally posted by @Flahute
Originally posted by @pap
“It’s finished” - Chicken Coup plotters.
Now that’s all done, can we all accept neo-liberalism via Blairism was a colossal fucking mistake?
And Flahute, can you report foy your zealot training sesh, la? We need to bone you up on public ownership
The best thing about being in opposition is you can have wonderful dreams and ambitions safe in the knowledge that they’ll never get implemented.
Nick Clegg wishes that were true. I know he wasn’t officially in opposition. It’s why he got his MPs to hold those placards up.
I’d like to ask what it is you think is so radical about Corbyn or he program that’ll prevent him from getting elected. It surely can’t be the media campaign. They’ve thrown every taboo in the book at him so far. Hasn’t worked, becayse of that dastardly principled stand he seems to have maintained throughout.
Well done on ensuring a continued tory government hammering the poor as there is no way that Corbyn will beat May (I bloody hope I’m wrong about that but I’m not).
I’ve heard it all before.
I think changes of government are as much a case of when, not who, although I accept that not getting shit off Murdoch papers does help one’s electoral prospects, or at least, it used to.
Elections are won and lost by the floaters in the marginals. There is an anti-establishment mood, and for once, a major party with an anti-establishment leader.
The political winds are changing. You’re parroting the common sense narrative of the last 40 years, eagerly amplified by the media which depends on the continuance of the same system. I don’t blame you for that.
I just wish to fuck that you’d take a closer look at what’s rumbling on in the grassroots, and consider being part of that growth. Pretty exciting time to be involved in Labour, and believe me, I’ve done my time to know the difference between the hard left, mostly a contest to see who can quote the most Marx, and what’s happening in the Labour Party.
Chilcot came. The previous strategy is morally and financially bankrupt. Time for something “new”.
I hope you’re right pap. My concern is that, while Corbyn clearly enthuses a mass of Labour Party members (especially those on the left), there are worrying signs elsewhere.
As an example, a detailed analysis of the May local election results, from wards which can be directly compared with the previous round of local elections, show considerably more losses than gains - 44 against 9 if memory serves. Not a great indication of mass public support, though clearly it’s not all that much to go on.
It seems that the attempted deposing of Corbyn has failed, for the time being at least. But the Labour Party ends up looking a bit of a mess, and parties in that state don’t often do well in elections. We’ll see I guess.
The local elections weren’t as bad as was made out by Laura K and her pals on the news.
First, Labour were tipped to lose hundreds of seats. Second, it’s a zero sum game, and Labour had won a lot of seats last time. There wasn’t actually much left for them to win. Finally, results within the important marginals have been very encouraging. Swings to Labour in those places.
As for the coup, I reckon the MPs that went public are going to get a torrid time from their CLPs, and that in the worst cases, they’ll be deselected. Mandatory reselection might be around the corner. Completely agree that as constituted, the PLP looks a mess.
They’ve ended up strengthening Corbyn this week.
Great news for the Conservatives. Bad news for the country, as the Tories have been given a free run at another majority.
Yeah, but to be fair you said Milliband would win, and he wasn’t even close.
Your ear to the street is more like a finger in the air.
You were ahead yesterday. Now you’re just making stuff up. I wanted people to vote Labour last time out, but I wasn’t a member of the party, because I didn’t think they could win.
I resigned from the party because they wouldn’t put Europe on the agenda, and didn’t see how they’d get that section of the vote.
Polls since have shown that Labour could have got a 19 percent swing had they promised a referendum.
Certainly didn’t predict a Tory majority. No-one did. There could be very good reasons for that.
Ah, a light bulb moment - I think I finally understand the Pap plan…
The poorer we are, the less people will vote Tory.
So force the country into recession via Brexit…and you hand power to Labour.
A clever plan - simply create more poor people.
Slightly extreme, and the collateral damage will be horrendous, but it could work…
Labour party membership has hit a 50 year high and is projected to hit about 600,000, chiefly garnered by Momentum. An impressive achievement and one that will presumably cement Corbyn as Leader for a long time to come.
Originally posted by @Rallyboy
Ah, a light bulb moment - I think I finally understand the Pap plan…
I’m flattered that you ascribe such political influence to me but…
The poorer we are, the less people will vote Tory.
Austerity is making the majority of people, myself included, poorer.
That’d be a policy I’d be looking to reverse.
So force the country into recession via Brexit…and you hand power to Labour.
The referendum did Labour a huge favour. The party was never able to reconcile its own feelings on the matter, and as I indicated in a previous post, it turned out to be a huge blind spot for them. The public have spoken and it is no longer a weakness.
That’d be the key positive coming out of Brexit in the short term. Longer term, programmes of nationalisation and public ownership are back on.
A clever plan - simply create more poor people.
Slightly extreme, and the collateral damage will be horrendous, but it could work…
Honestly, mush - I’m the sort of boring twat that has been proposing policy on football forums for a decade now. I’m sure I’ve bored you all to tears with rent controls, social housing and where the line ought to be between public and private. It’s not like this information isn’t forthcoming.
Of all the people you might want to invent a policy platform for, I’m probably the person that least needs it.
I was just worried about why you had suddenly gone all-Thatcher on us, but I see why now.
Whether he is a steely old bastard or the uprising was full of inept, pant-pissers (did you hear Eagle crying on the Radio when she resigned from the shadow cabinet!), you have to admire Corbyn for his stance and apparent ease with which he has swatted dissenters aside. Other events have diluted media coverage, sure, but he has ridden through it with apparent ease. Whether you like him or not, he’s shown some cajones.
Collateral damage only matters when it’s produced by poorly implemented Tory policy, you know that.
When they enumerate his achievements in the run up to the general election, he’s going to look fairly classy.
I’ve been impressed with him staring down this last remnant of rampant neo-liberalism.
I was impressed with the way he handled his Chilcot speech yesterday. I’m not sure that he mentioned Blair by name once. He could have easily laid the boot into the man, but focused on the actions of the government, and the easily foreseen consequences.
The fact that 30 towns and cities had rallies specifically to keep the man probably helped. Also, the rebels are having real trouble finding a candidate that didn’t vote for the war. The best they’ve got is Owen Smith, not an MP at the time, but an advisor to some of the hawks of the day. Not great.
The Labour Party membership did the Faustian deal with the Blairite elements to get elected. The landslides empowered that faction. Ordinary members were told “this is the way, this is the way!” and went along with it because it seemed to be working.
Those policies have failed at the last two general elections now.
The membership is saying “nah, actually, this isn’t the way”.
The PLP rebels have been so used to saying “this is the way” and getting their way, that they just can’t see it.
Labour is now the largest left-wing party in Europe.
600K members, 200K joining up since the Chicken Coup began.
Go coup!
But the problem is still that the Conservative party has spent years manipulating the boarders on constituencies to maximise their votes and minimise the labour that I don’t really believe that they ever really have a majority when they win the election.
I firmly believe that this is why they made sure that the proportional representation vote was as complicated as possible to stop people voting for it.
So with that the only way Labour can get voted in is to sway the liberal voters to their side and the farther left their policies in the campaign are the less likely labour are to win their votes and as such the election
Whoa there Bish, I seem to remember Labour doing exactly the same when they were in charge, in fact didn’t they create even more Constituencies in London to get them more seats?
Proportional represntation is complicated enough, I don’t think the Condem party needed to do anything to exacerbate that!
Originally posted by @Stevebish
But the problem is still that the Conservative party has spent years manipulating the boarders on constituencies to maximise their votes and minimise the labour that I don’t really believe that they ever really have a majority when they win the election.
The Conservatives are presently being investigated for electoral fraud, and the boundaries game has been going on since time immemorial. They have been elected in a majority government with a minority share of the vote.
I firmly believe that this is why they made sure that the proportional representation vote was as complicated as possible to stop people voting for it.
Referendum. Not covered by the law when it comes to lies. Both major parties acted in a disgraceful, self-interested way. They like majority governments formed from minority votes.
So with that the only way Labour can get voted in is to sway the liberal voters to their side and the farther left their policies in the campaign are the less likely labour are to win their votes and as such the election
Austerity has been pretty universal. Even the pensioner set, deliberately and largely shielded from its effects, see the damage its doing in younger generations.
Labour won’t win anything with Blairite policies. State supplied housing, free lifelong education, nationalised industries and the move toward becoming a high tech specialist. Offer that to families that are struggling in 2020 and they’ll likely bite your hands off.
The Tories have created a lot of strugglers in their short time back in office.
Pap believe it or not I lean towards agreeing with you I wouldn’t say I’m an all in Labour supporter, probably more of a middle of the road person when it comes to economics but prefer labours social ethics so am not a liberal either.
But I also believe that we agree on the boarder moves still mainly favour the Tories not labour but I just don’t think that they will win with to far left a campaign.
Notice I say campaign because I’m sorry but I actually think that they have to use politics the same as the rest, for instance the Tories said in their campaign that they would not close the NHS but the first thing that they did was make someone who had campaigned to close the NHS minister for health and of course that wasn’t with a plan to privatise at was it.
Your right but I don’t believe that they got anyway near to undoing what the Tories spent over a decade doing to the labour vote
