:labour: New Old Labour in trouble

:labour: New Old Labour in trouble


So yeah, it’s something I’ve been looking at - I have done the sums and I need to be earning a set amount to make it even along with the benefits - however it’s not that far off (around 25% increase needed on a Senior BA/Lead Analyst role).

I guess my location currently helps from a contracting point of view - but I’ll just have to see how the market reacts going forward.


Cheers for the figures, although i would like them other way around(higher earnings, more tax).
Would it not be possible to do a sliding scale from 0%-60%. 0% being equivalent to the personal allowance, then rising to 60% for £150k and upwards?


Of course it’s fair. Those that have taken for decades, need to get their heads sorted, as it looks like the people that create the wealth, are waking up to how much and for how long, they’ve been shafted.
Giving people hope is a powerful tool and the right thing to do. Be a fucker if Labour don’t get in soon. No change in policy and the possible negative impact of leaving the eu will cause a lot of unrest. This system was always doomed to failure as it’s so unjust.
Here’s the reality of this system.

“A rich man’s cat may drink the milk that a poor boy needs to remain healthy. Does this happen because the market is failing? Not at all, for the market mechanism is doing its job – putting goods in the hands of those that have the dollar votes.”

Yale University Professor Bill Nordhaus.

He’s a cunt, isn’t he. Should have taken more notice of this.

If you do not change direction, you may end up where you are heading.” – Lao Tzu


But it’s not those who are taking for decades that are necessarily being shafted here - there are a lot of people in that bracket that haven’t been doing that for years.


The personal allowance is wank and should be abolished.

Forever pitched as “taking the poor out of tax”, it’s actually a tax break for everyone.

Besides, I think the poor should pay income tax. Might make them feel more entitled to demand better services.


Yeah, do understand that, but that’s no reason to keep an unjust system. The country is falling to pieces and the average person has little hope and people without hope will soon become desperate. When that happens on a large scale, there will be serious trouble.
Fairer taxation and particularly stopping money flight, will help address that unbalance.
Maybe people are waking up to this.



Interesting way to look at it - personally, I’d like to see the following:

£0 to £15k - 10%
£15k to £40k - 22%
£40k to £100k - 40%
£100k+ - 50%

Reduce NI to 10%.


Yes, fair point and seeing the poorer earn enough of the money they produce, would, i doubt, see them moaning about paying a bit more for the needed services.


Now of course, income tax is a funny thing - with a tax rise although you’re increasing money straight to the Government, you are also taking money away through a lack of spending in the economy - and there is also the theory that income tax cuts actually increases the money that a Government will bring in (see Laffer Curve).

It seems that perhaps this has been happening whilst the Conservatives have been in power:


As an aside, is Keir Starmer differentiating himself from the pack ahead of a leadership challenge?

No-one’s ruling out remain apparently.


Isn’t Thornberry in pole position?
No one’s ruling anything in or out, that’s the tories nightmare to deal with.


Osborne “closed” the tax dodge that was dividend payments for Contractors and self employed and which was unfair to permanent workers, by bringing the threshold levels right down. It was a fair thing to do but pissed off a load of company “Directors” who could claim over 30k tax free in lieu of a taxable salary.

I don’t know what he or Hammond have done that is specific to your work sector though, so can’t comment on that.


It’s what he’s done with the Public sector, essentially saying that all contractors are permanent members of staff, so they cannot claim expenses or pay via dividends anymore, but of course still not get any of the benefits like sick pay, holiday etc. It’s been catastrophic for the Public Sector, and he’s looking to put the same changes into the Private Sector.


Wasn’t ever fair. I know this every time I have time off sick, can’t get to work or a holiday.

The exchequer was always comparing apples with oranges. Contractors are not disguised employees, for all the reasons above. As for dodging tax, perhaps they should start with the likes of Vodafone, Barclays or even Amazon.


The problem with the contracting model is that a lot of people took the piss. There are genuine contractors who should be allowed to use these limited company vehicles, however there were many many who saw it as simply a way of cutting their tax bill.


I guess it’s the old “Benefits” argument then, a few spoil it for the majority who need it.


Almost - the majority spoiled it for the few that deserve it

When I started seeing teachers claiming to be self employed contractors operating through Guernsey based companies - I knew the game was going to end


It’s certainly not a majority from my experience, and certainly within my sector. I’m sure @pap would agree.



Its made no real change in the number of agency staff in social care. Me and the manager are the only perm members of staff.