:labour: New Old Labour in trouble

:labour: New Old Labour in trouble
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#3162

"now i know how Douglas Bader must have felt after losing his legs "

That’s very good. Send it to Hodge😂


#3163

Hodge is probably not the best example, I only mentioned cos pap brought it up. My point is that discrimination is often subjective to the extent that it depends upon a persons opinion.

Take the equality act, and its definition of harassment

The standard definition for harassment is unwanted conduct on the grounds of race, gender, sexual orientation etc. which has the purpose or effect of either violating the claimant’s dignity, or creating an intimidating, hostile, degrading, humiliating or offensive environment for them.

The thing is, it is in the opinion of the person on the receiving end (assuming they are being reasonable - also subjective).

My position on all this is that, and always has been, JC is not antisemite although he has put himself in positions that open him up to criticism. I do think he has managed the situation appallingly and could have kicked this into touch months ago had he not dithered and prevaricated.

But that just my opinion, and as my gramps once said “opinions are like arseholes, everybody has one”


#3164

This is interesting, especially the paragraph before this bit.

“By bringing things to this pitch, the Blairites have made compromise impossible. Either Corbyn and most of the members will have to go, or the Blairite MPs will.”


#3165

So that’s Willsman re-elected, and demonstrations happening outside Labour HQ.


#3166

Sounds like it is going to be “lively”

7m ago13:09

This is from HuffPost’s Paul Waugh.

Paul Waugh(@paulwaugh)

Just been told all members of NEC have been asked to hand in mobile phones before meeting. Party obviously terrified of leaks re anti semitism debate.

September 4, 2018

And this is from Politico Europe’s Tom McTague just a few minutes ago.

Tom McTague(@TomMcTague)

A (good) source texts to say it is all kicking off inside the NEC over Willsman. Talk of moves to force him out. No confirmation

September 4, 2018

Perhaps that has something to do with the information that prompted this tweet earlier, from PoliticsHome’s Kevin Schofield.

Kevin Schofield(@PolhomeEditor)

Overheard in the foyer of the building housing Labour’s HQ, Pete Willsman shouting into his phone: “You fucking bastards, you’ve stabbed me in the back.”

September 4, 2018


#3167

Et Tu Jeremy?


#3168

Let’s see what happens, eh?

My predictions are already on the money, btw. People citing Willsman’s re-election to the NEC as proof that Labour has 70k members with AS views.


#3169

Will it finally be put to bed?? I seriously doubt it…


#3170

No backbone- caved in to the Israeli lobby and the power of social media.

Shout loud enough and long enough and you’ll get your own way eventually in this day and age.


#3171

Doubt it too. This won’t stop, because the IHRA definition was never important. Using it to get Corbyn out was


#3172

Wonder if they have a comment, from the distant past, just waiting to be used, now it’s been adopted.


#3173

The LFI etc will have a team on it 24-7, how else are they going to purge thousands of Corbyn’s supporters from the party. That is the end game here. Sacks, Hodge, Berger, all of them are not daft, they have been (deliberately) creating a self fulfilling prophecy, creating anti semitism where there is none with their vile evidence free accusations and smears. All designed to provoke a reaction, which they can now twist to show ‘proof’ of anti-semitism. This has been going on for the best part of three years now, pretty much non stop. The establishment in this country are determined to stop a Corbyn led government, desperate to stop it happening. They will use any undemocratic means to do it, working together in common cause, which culminated today with this vote being held by the Labour Party, Cressida Dick announcing that the Labour Party will be investigated by The Met, the BBC choosing tonight to show their new 2 part documentary,‘We are British Jews’, which the BBC’s own programme guide describes as ‘Eight British Jews explore what Anti-Semitism feels like in modern Britain’. The timing is pure coincidence i’m sure.
Watching the demonstrators outside Labour HQ today, it was interesting to see them waving Israeli flags, i thought they were British, that’s what they keep telling us this whole furore is about. Just imagine the uproar if Muslim demonstrators against Islamophobia were waving Pakistani flags. And just look at this reasonable chappy today, protesting against ‘hate’ in the Labour Party. Just imagine if someone from Momentum had taken to shoving a megaphone in the face of Luciana Berger, or Margaret Hodge and screaming abuse at them, it would have been bullying, threatening behaviour, a hate crime even, yet when a Corbyn loyalist is on the receiving end, there is total ease about it, no-one telling him to stop being provocative. I find that quite troubling to be honest. Chris Williamson should have grabbed his megaphone and shoved it up his arse. Sideways.


#3174

Just seen this whilst on the Tube.

Also had an article about Khan not doing much re crime in London. Bit rich coming from Gideon.


#3175

Don’t disagree with any of that, just think they are looking at bigger fish.
Maybe the man at the top.
This is the bit from the Murray article that stuck in my mind.
“The Blairites other hope is that, by the Labour Party adopting the IHRA’s malicious definition of anti-semitism as embracing criticism of Israel, they will manage through legal action to force Jeremy Corbyn’s expulsion from the Labour Party. This attempt to use the British Establishment to circumvent party democracy is extraordinary.”

They’ve put far to much effort in to this, just to attack the membership.


#3176

#3177

#3178

You could be right, but personally i don’t think they would dare to force Corbyn out through legal action, there would be uproar, and not just from his supporters. Much easier to target his supporters, get rid of them and reclaim the party for the Tory Lite. It won’t work of course, people are starting to wise up as to what is going on.


#3179

Having lived for a few years in the northern part of Stoke Newington, this doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. The Hassidic Jews who live in that area don’t believe that a state of Israel should exist at all, because according to their beliefs the Jewish people will only have a homeland when the Messiah turns up. Which, of course, he hasn’t yet.

The Hassidim are deeply religious, very spiritual people; I wouldn’t imagine that support for Labour is particularly high in their community, but they sure as hell don’t like Israel. And, unlike other Jewish dissenters, it would be a tad difficult for Netanyahu et al to describe them as “self-hating Jews”.


#3180

Listening to news on Rafio 4 and they’re still giving Labour a hard time because they’ve accepted the definition of antisemitism but have added an additional statement around reserving the right to have free speech to criticise actions by Israel and Palestine

The only UK political party to adopt the definition…

Just about ready to throw the radio out the window about the whole thing tbf.


#3181

Same here.

Gentleman on the radio with a Jewish background (important for context nothing else) saying that the original definition was all that is needed - it’s accepted everywhere, no need to add a clarifying statement.

Nicky Campbell then asks him a series of hypothetical questions about different types of people calling the creation of the state of Israel a racist endeavour. He bats most of them back but when he is asked if it would be ok for a hypothetical Palestinian who was kicked out of an area of Palestine because he was not Jewish, he then said “well, can we just back up here. I think it would be helpful”.

The irony of him adding his own clarifying statement when it suited was lost on him I guess.