So anti semitism is not racist it is religist ?
I think of it as being in a category all of it’s own. Unless that in itself is antisemetic in which case I don’t think that.
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The big stink at the moment is that Labour has not fully conformed to the definition recently drawn up by the International Holocaust Remembrance Association.
One of the bits that Labour didn’t take up was the IHRA’s insistence that it was antisemitic to compare the current policy of the Israeli government with those of the Nazis.
For me, the old definition is just fine, but I’m more than happy to include stuff like saying there is a big Jewish conspiracy is antisemitic. There isn’t, and I’d be equally strident in my criticism of anyone that said that there was a big Muslim conspiracy.
Most people in any faith are moderates. There are, however, extremists among all of them. On the basis of historical record, there are extremists in charge of Saudi Arabia, and extremists in charge of Israel. Both are using their considerable wealth and influence to cause havoc in their own countries and elsewhere.
It should not be islamophobic or antisemitic to say so.
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Fuck me that must make me antisemitic…the bit’s in Schindler’s List that made my cry are being played out again in front of my eyes today. 
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Fascinating contribution from Michael Rosen.
An excellent (if very long) piece analysing the attack on Labour’s position on antisemitism.
Some extracts…
On the change in definition of antisemitism
But the reason for that is simple. Several examples below the IHRA working definition of anti-Semitism (which in and of itself, Labour has fully endorsed) can and do have the effect of minimising, even suppressing, legitimate criticism of Israel. How do we know that? Because of what the author of that very working definition (adapted by the IHRA from the European Monitoring Centre on Racism and Xenophobia (EUMC)) himself set out to Congress last November.
Kenneth S. Stern is Executive Director of the Justus & Karin Rosenberg Foundation, and has spent his whole career combating hatred and anti-Semitism. Few people anywhere are better qualified to comment on this whole issue than he is. Yet to his dismay, as he explained to the House of Representatives, the definition has been abused on various US university campuses to “restrict academic freedom and punish political speech”, and had the effect of “chilling pro-Palestinian speech”.
Stern also paid particular heed to alarming developments in Britain.
“(The) “working definition” was recently adopted in the United Kingdom and applied to campus. An “Israel Apartheid Week” event was cancelled as violating the definition. A Holocaust survivor was required to change the title of a campus talk, and the university mandated it be recorded, after an Israeli diplomat complained that the title violated the definition. Perhaps most egregious, an off-campus group citing the definition called on a university to conduct an inquiry of a professor (who received her PhD from Columbia) for antisemitism, based on an article she had written years before. The university then conducted the inquiry. And while it ultimately found no basis to discipline the professor, the exercise itself was chilling and McCarthy-like”.
On Zionism
Further: while ‘Zionism’ as originally understood simply meant support for a Jewish homeland, in recent decades, to many entirely non-racist people, it has come to mean something else. As Israel has continued to build illegal settlements and carry out ethnic cleansing in defiance of international law, not to mention blockade Gaza for what is now 11 years, to many, ‘Zionism’ has come to mean ‘racist expansion’. That is not a position I personally agree or even sympathise with; but I do understand it.
The IHRA example appears to delegitimise it; and worse, conflate anti-Zionism with anti-Semitism. That is utterly nonsensical. There is precisely zero that is anti-Semitic about opposing racist laws, racist policies, or the continued contravention of international norms. In any case, Labour’s code of conduct highlights that the term ‘Zionist’ should only ever be used “advisedly, carefully, and never euphemistically or as part of personal abuse”.
On Priorities
In the case of Jewish members who are leaving, no doubt, that fear I mentioned earlier will be playing a part. If I thought Labour was in any way anti-Semitic, I’d be renouncing my support too. But the bottom line is: it’s not, and Corbyn categorically is not. Given that, I have to ask the following of anyone departing: “Do you seriously care more about the omission of a few problematic examples under the IHRA definition (which its own author has strongly critiqued), which has been fully endorsed in any case, than you do about the poor? The infirm? The disabled? The unemployed? Immigrants and refugees? Grenfell? Windrush? EU citizens at the mercy of a no-deal Brexit? Those forced onto zero hours contracts? Those who can never hope to buy a home, and who pay disgusting rent charges amid often squalid conditions with no protection at all? Those who have been led down the garden path by the most incompetent government in living memory? Do you care about any of them?”
On Maureen Lipman
Into the breach steps Maureen Lipman, an actress I once greatly admired. “Jeremy Corbyn has made me a Tory”, she cries… before, in a quite remarkable interview, first condemning him for meeting with “the wrong people” (in other words, ‘the wrong Jews’) at a Seder night; then, with stunning Islamophobia, exclaiming that “we have not committed thousands of appalling crimes… we’re not bombing or beheading”. Who are, Maureen? Muslims?
Not only that, but in her latest move into the spotlight, Lipman mysteriously failed to mention that she in fact abandoned Labour four years ago. And why? Because of its support for a Palestinian state. Think about that for a moment: she denounced the Labour party for its backing of Palestinian self-determination. Would she prefer them to rot forever instead?
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As I struggle to understand simple things, I found
this idiots guide to Labour and anti- semetism useful. I have been unable since it all kicked off really get my head round the accusations. I don’t for a minute believe that Corbyn or Livingstone are anti Semites. I’m not sure if there’s an issue with some sections of the Labour party, but if there is I guess that’s just a reflection of society. I listened to the secret recording of that Peter Willsman that has been described as anti Semitic by everyone, including Owen Jones and even Willsman has now apologised for his anti Semitic words…and I didn’t think it was anti Semitic.
So… what’s the problem here?
Edit- vote closed as bletch has opened a better one
- Fatso is stupid and doesn’t understand what anti-semitism is
- Fatso is an anti Semite
- Jewish people are trying to take over the world
- Jewish people have taken over the world
- Labour have an anti Semitic problem that needs addressing
- The whole thing is ridiculous and a smear campaign
- Jewish people are rightly sensitive after a long history of oppression
- Labour have exxacerbated the issue by continually apologising for things that aren’t anti Semitic
- People are snowflakes and need to get a grip
0 voters
You want to pick the ones about the jews taking over, don’t you?
I did think about making it so you could pick multiple options but couldn’t figure it out in the few milliseconds I dedicated to it.
What would you add @saintbletch?
Hell there are 4 or 5 options I could have voted for but I plumped for…“Labour have exacerbated the issue”
If I see similarities between what’s happening on the Gaza/Isreali border and the horrors inflicted on Jewish people in WW2 why shouldn’t I say it without being called an anti-semite. Surely Jewish people should be saying the same things…turn a critical eye on themselves otherwise they become the thing they despise the most.
I won’t be cowed just because I criticise Israel policy and someone thinks that’s constitutes anti-semitism.
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exactly. The meeting that Corbyn is now apologising for being at is one from 2010 or something where a holocaust survivor likened Israel to the Nazis. So…
- Corbyn didn’t even say it
- It was 8 years ago
- It was a fucking holocaust survivor who is being told his views are not valid. Fuck off!
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Try this.
- Fatso is stupid and doesn’t understand what anti-semitism is
- Fatso is an anti Semite
- Jewish people are trying to take over the world
- Jewish people have taken over the world
- Labour have an anti Semitic problem that needs addressing
- The whole thing is ridiculous and a smear campaign
- Jewish people are rightly sensitive after a long history of oppression
- Labour have exxacerbated the issue by continually apologising for things that aren’t anti Semitic
- People are snowflakes and need to get a grip
- The Jewish government wilfully conflates Zionism and antisemitism
- Jewish Labour party members that want Corbyn out are using this issue to beat him up
0 voters
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Jewish people in Israel are saying the same things.
If Haaretz was held to the same standards as the Labour Party in the UK, it would have been closed long ago.
Whatever, I’ll take accusations of racism from an openly apartheid state with a pinch of salt so large it would empty the Dead Sea.
Or as seriously as 1980s White South Africans stating the same.
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This could go in so many, but here for @Fatso, the important bit starts at 3:40(the hammer of the Jews 
).
Brexshit people 9:50.
The best bit they have ever done 19:40.
All the rest is a bit shit.
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And so it continues.
Finally. Think I can make a comment on these “developments”.
Armageddon is 8 months away and PLP is accused / scared of hurting Maureen Lipman’s feelings.
Yup about it I think
The Guardian of apartheid has had one of these stories on its front page every day this week. You cannot comment on any of the articles concerning this matter, even though you would have thought these vile slurs would be a major area of discussion from the left wing audience the paper purports to represent.
I think it time for a poll.
Does the Guardian support the Labour Party as constituted?
- Yes
- No
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Elsewhere, Mark Steel continues to bang it out of the park.
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I’m going to predict a headline here. Willsman was part of the JC9 for the NEC, a JC9 which I might add, also had Jon Lansman on their list of reccomendations. The texts went out before the weekend. People voted for the JC9. The NEC of 2017 arguably denied Labour a majority. It’s very important that Labour members go for NEC reps that are not going to fuck us up again.
Thousands of Labour members vote for anti-Semite
And that, is sadly a reflection of how a tissue of lies becomes a compacted truth in not just ours, in every society.
The foundation of the next “truth” is a lie.