:labour: New Old Labour in trouble

I’ve never really got Alan Sugar, or at least why people think he’s a decent businessman. I actually do have a decent memory of his activities. I remember the cheap stereo stack systems he sold in the 1980s. We had one, as I recall. I remember the line of computers he imported and re-badged. The first set were pretty decent. And that, my friends, is the peak of his trading career.

He bought Sinclair and put the final nails in the coffin, applying the old form of Amstrad product development, ostensibly aimed at making cheap electronic tat that few people wanted or understood.

His last pre-Apprentice big business idea was the eMailer, his ingenious idea to rip off little old ladies that didn’t understand the Internet but had relatives abroad.

This latest stunt is disgraceful. If a Labour member had shared a photoshopped image of Hitler and Netanyahu, there would be uproar and Corbyn would be to blame.

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You’re fired!

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Absolutely. Corbyn’s too nice but he’s well within his rights to smack that snide little rat Sugar right in the mouth for that.

It isn’t funny. It’s just a piece of cowardly, shit-smearing nastiness. I wonder how he’d like it if someone photoshopped him into Auschwitz or some other crap like that.

Fully behind Corbyn on this one. And by the way, it isn’t not funny because its offensive, its not funny because its a shite unfunny unintelligent dogshit attempt at humour.

Anyway - I’m off to get pissed and watch us beat West Ham. Let’s do this.

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What did he say - seems the page has been deleted.

I took a screenshot for exactly that eventuality.

Will post when I get a mo…

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Put Corbyn’s head on a picture(badly done, Amstrad computer probably) sitting beside Hitler in a car.

Does Sugar really think anyone is stupid enough to believe that bollocks? Hitler, Nazi uniforms and Swastikas are the preserve of the Conservative Party, always has been, always will be. Everyone knows that.

McDonnell had asked Sugar to take it down, apparently.

I’ve not looked but I’m fairly sure that it’ll have been the online criticism that almost inevitably occurred. I also think that Alan Sugar, on balance, has probably done Corbyn a huge favour.

There have been many arguing on this thread that we’d already gone too far before this had started, that the outrage is largely manufactured and factionally motivated. As I’ve remarked, the one thing people collectively understand about the term is that your life seems to turn to shit if you get called one.

The only reason Sotonians continues to exist after @furball 's Bomber Harris Dresden Run Revival is because we’re a harmless Internet breakaway forum. No-one noticed, even if a lot of fingers got pointed in some very unpleasant directions.

The Sugar tweet was demonstrably and quite obviously too far for anyone rocking knowledge of that particular conflict. It was a giant visual shorthand for Sugar talking absolute bollocks, and a giant red flag to anyone that might not have noticed the campaign against Corbyn so far. You don’t have to be a political geek. You don’t even have to support the Labour Party.

Anyone with the most basic understanding of the Second World War, regardless of political stripes, can look at that picture and justifiably think “Oh Lord Sugar, you massive fucking twat”.

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I’ve slept on this since I posted and it gets worse the more I see it.

Here you go…

EDIT: CAPTION SHOULD READ:

WHEN YOU WERE PICTURED AT NUREMBERG AND CLAIM YOU THOUGHT YOU WERE GOING TO A CAR RALLY.

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That looks more like Malcolm McDowell than Corbyn to me…

Ta Bletch

Sugar is a dick of the highest order - I’m not being AS btw.

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I still think there is an imminent election off the back of this, which could be called as soon as May. It is worth remembering that we’ve had hit piece after hit piece on Corbyn for some time now. The faint cries of Stalinism have been there along, as have Trotskyism entryists. Indeed, our own @barry-sanchez was crowning out this very turd on this thread.

We get the Czech spy malarkey, utterly debunked within a couple of weeks, but not before a lot of heat and light painting Corbyn as a collaborator, or in Ben Bradshaw’s case, a traitor who sold secrets to others. Bradshaw had to delete the tweet eventually issuing a grovelling apology.

Then the Skripals, one of the most nonsensical farces I can remember in recent times. For me, this whole episode makes no sense as advertised. The story is falling apart. This was supposed to be a nerve agent 5-8 times deadlier than Sarin, something that had killed many in the Japanese subway system after a home-grown attack there. Two of those affected are out of critical condition and on their way to complete recovery. How deadly could it have been?

Russia wasn’t the only thing they were pointing fingers at. Corbyn was woven into the narrative there, lambasted for asking what any county court would demand in a legal trial, They attempted to cast him as Putin sympathiser, Newsnight even going as far as Photoshopping a picture of him in a Greek fisherman’s hat into a red menace with a Kremlin background.

This latest round of media stories are overblown, and come context-free. They say that Labour isn’t taking the problem seriously, except Labour has 70 investigations on the go. Social media posts are being used to target people that did not make them. Art is being wilfully misinterpreted, as in the case of the Brick Lane mural.

There has been an internal struggle going on within the Labour Party since Corbyn became leader. At that time, many of the party’s governing institutions were in the hands of Blairites, despite the massive shift jn party membership. They did terrible things with that power, such as issue baseless suspensions before important elections, tried to keep their own leader off the ballot in a leadership and disenfranchised of hundreds of thousands of Labour voters, including yours truly.

Today, those internal struggles are largely over with. The NEC has a pro-Corbyn majority, The intake of new MPs in the 2017 election has weakened the dominance of the Blairites in the Parliamentary Labour Party. There is talk of deselecting the members that have been most disloyal, something that we’ll get to do with time.

The only way those MPs keep their jobs is if Labour gets no time to reselect. This is the last throw of the dice for both them and the Tories. I would be entirely unsurprised if there weren’t cross party coordination on these lines. The enemy of my enemy.

Theresa May is not going to want a long campaign. She’ll want a short one that won’t get the time to unravel the way her last one did.

As someone that has my head in a lot of war books recently, this all feels like political artillery, pounding Labour’s credibility with the electorate through a constant stream of propaganda. These barrages cannot be sustained for long, and the ordnance we’ve seen exploding this week has been pretty poisonous. I don’t think it can get much worse without going unpredicably nuclear. That’s why I reckon an election has got to be marching over the horizon.

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Teresa’s whistle stop tour of the U.K’s least populated spots is a bit suspicious too. Pity cow’s can’t vote.

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When the dust settles on all this Anti-Semite hysteria i really hope Corbyn sues the arse off Sugar for this. And then makes him pay any damages to a Palestinian charity, that would be sweet. By any yardstick this is clearly a vile libel against a decent man who has spent his long political career fighting and speaking out against racism in all it’s forms. That is a matter of record. One of only 7 MP’s who has voted in Parliament for EVERY motion condemning Anti-Semitism. And why are the usual New Labourite suspects, Blair and his groupies not calling for Sugar to be suspended from The House Of Lords. As Pap has pointed out, if any of Jeremy Corbyn’s supporters had done this there would have been uproar.

After yesterday’s slaughter in the Gaza Strip by the IDF, again not a murmer, it was worth only a passing mention on the BBC news programmes, and virtually nothing in the MSM. Even the Guardian, which sadly is becoming more like the Mail every day barely mentioned it. Yet here we have the self proclaimed “most moral army in the world” shooting unarmed protesters, women and children included, like fish in a barrel. This is exactly the purpose of all this Anti-Semite nonsense from the Israel firsters, people are cowed, frightened to be labelled an Anti-Semite if they dare to question the Israeli army’s fascistic behaviour which is there for the whole world to see. Sadly it seems John Mcdonnell has succumbed. Jeremy Corbyn should stop apologizing for his non existent support for Anti-Semitism, enough is enough. He should go on the attack, expose the Zionist supporters for the hypocrites they are. If he keeps giving ground to these right wing supporters of Israel, allowing them to demand that he kicks people out of the Party they will never stop, they will keep this going during the local election campaign in their attempts to undermine him. His support from Labour Party members gets stronger by the day, he should do what they want him to do, condemn Israel for their brutal behaviour, and expose his critics for the hypocrites and liars they are. People are not daft, they can see perfectly well what is going on here. A foreign state masterminding a continuous campaign of lies against the Labour Party, offering vast amounts of money to anyone who can dig the dirt on any MP who dares to raise their head above the parapet and speak out in support of Palestinian human rights, and draws attention to the flouting of international law and brutality of the State of Israel in their treatment of them. All supported by their acolytes in the ‘Friends of Israel’ groups, who are basically fifth columnists, for many of them their first allegiance is to Israel not the citizens of this country they are elected to represent. No man can serve two masters.

And if these views, ie, telling the truth about the situation makes me an Anti-Semite, well, so be it. I know i am not, so i really couldn’t give two fucks for the opinions of supporters of a nation who openly behave in a fascist manner. Time to stand up.

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It’s a little weird that we’ve got to this place, but entirely understandable in context. The older fellas on this forum will know that Israel used to be a cause celebré for the left. There was a huge amount of sympathy that was generated from the shock of the holocaust, and while it was a complete shock when discovered, the dots were there to join up for anyone with the benefit of hindsight. The West collectively failed to do that, and Stalin was no better. He actually purged his ministry of Jews when establishing the Von Ribbentrop / Molotov pact.

Hitler saw them everywhere. When he declared war against Russia, he frequently labelled them Jewish bolsheviks. When he declared war against the United States, he called the country a Jewish democracy. Antisemitism, at that time, was not the huge taboo that it is today. It was real, actual and historic, tacitly supported by governments to various degrees. You could be barred from certain professions, expelled (to where, exactly?), or in the case of Hitler’s Reich, deported to a death camp. The images we’ve seen from that period of history are among history’s darkest. This was peak antisemitism. Centuries old prejudice, finally codified into a demagogue’s set of “laws”. Decent people in the world were, and still are horrified by the hell that European Jews had to endure, particularly those in Eastern Europe with less agency to escape.

There was a huge feeling, worldwide, that this should never have happened and should never happen again. Israel as a concept carried a lot of support with the left.

So what changed? After 1967, it became increasingly difficult to justifiy the actions of the state of Israel. We Brits get criticised for enabling the nation with the Balfour Accord, but that always said that the state should be established without harming the people that already lived there. After 1967, it became demonstrably clear that was not happening and if the Israeli state continued on its present course, it would never happen.

Spin on fifty years, and the Palestinians are in a more precarious position than ever. Israel under Netanyahu is probably in one of its most truculent stances of all time, especially if you consider the brazen use of deception highlighted by the Al Jazeera documentary. The state teaches its kids horrible racist shit, not just about Arabs, but also about the wider world, painting everyone outside of Israel as potential anti-Semites that want to kill them.

In Corbyn’s or McDonnell’s shoes. I do not think that I would have made the same decisions. I am a little bothered that both of them have given into pressure this week, giving this witch hunt legitimacy by saying they’ll stamp it out.

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https://twitter.com/alexnunns/status/981242310280318976

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Politics is so confusing.

So in the UK the left is Anti-Semitic and the right are their torch bearers.

So how come elsewhere in Europe the right are becoming anti-semitic…

Yeah I know it is the Fail, but it’s also Poland which is worrying as I plan to move there before Brexit