:labour: New Old Labour in trouble

As we all know, polls are shit, but…

Last week’s autumn statement was one of the most important government announcements since Theresa May became prime minister and we’ve got the first set of Guardian/ICM polling since it took place. As everyone knows, polling is not always an exact predictor of how people will vote but it is a much better guide to public thinking than guesswork and so, with those caveats, here are the figures.

State of the parties

Conservatives: 44% (up 2 points fromICM earlier this month)

Labour: 28% (no change)

Ukip: 12% (up 1)

Lib Dems: 7% (down 2)

Greens: 4% (up 1)

Conservative lead: 16 points (up 2)

ICM’s director Martin Boon urges caution about attributing the two-point increase in the Tory lead just to the autumn statement. But he says the Conservative score, 44%, is the highest the party has achieved since October 2009 and just one point off the highest it has ever hit in Guardian/ICM polling going back to 1992. The Tories have reached 45% on just five occasions, three of them just after John Major’s election victory in 1992 and two after the 2008 financial crash.

Boon also says the figures for Labour are bleak. The tables, which ICM will publish later today (I will post a link as soon as they’re online) show the Tories ahead of Labour amongst every social grade, even DEs (where the Tories are on 33% and Labour 32%). The Tories are also ahead amongst all age groups, apart from 18 to 24-year-olds.

Economic confidence

Respondents were asked to think about the economy, their financial position and their ability to keep up with the cost of living, and were then asked “how confident do you feel about things at the moment?”

Confident (very or fairly): 53%

Not confidence (not very or not at all): 43%

Overall that amounts to a +10 confidence measures (those who are confident minus those who are not). Boon says this quite a drop from August, when the net measure was +34, but that it is still relatively good. Over the last decade the net measure has often been negative.

Living standards

Last week, after the autumn statement, the Institute for Fiscal Studies said rising inflation meant that by 2021 workers would have gone more than a decade without an increase in wages in real terms. ICM asked respondents to think about their own living standards over the last 10 years and to say what had happened to them.

Got better: 31%

No change: 34%

Got worse: 29%

These are hardly figures that a government would want to boast about: only a third of people think their living standards have got better over the last decade. But, equally, only about a third of people are saying their living standards have actually got worse. These figures might help to explain why the government’s ratings are so high.

ICM Unlimited interviewed an online sample of 2009 adults aged 18+ on 25-27th November 2016. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults. ICM is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules.

T.WATSON
A couple of things to report on. First, Tom Watson on BDS:-

"And those in this country who campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions seek to demonise and delegitimise the world’s only Jewish state.

“Let me be clear. The BDS movement is morally wrong. It is failing. And it does nothing to advance the cause of peace or advance a two-state solution.”

So, er, that’s explained then. Mustn’t be any problems with human rights or apartheid, because Tom didn’t mention them.

Oh noes, not Tony!
Next, the SNP have a vote today on Blair.

Jeremy Corbyn has rejected pleas from Labour MPs to force the party to oppose a controversial motion attacking Tony Blair over Iraq.

The Labour leader and Shadow Cabinet rejected a request from the Parliamentary Labour Party (PLP) to impose a three-line whip on the SNP motion due to be debated in the Commons on Wednesday.

The motion claims that Blair misled Parliament over his intentions to go to war in Iraqi in 2003, urges a new committee investigation that could result in the former PM being stripped of his Privy Council membership.

HuffPost UK has learned that the Shadow Cabinet agreed to impose only a one-line whip, meaning that the debate is not considered essential to attend.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/jeremy-corbyn-tony-blair-iraq-snp-motion-misleading-parliament-chilcot_uk_583d9094e4b072ec0d6067af

Labour hav had another bad day at the polls, down 7% on the GE In Sleaford.

it will be interesting to watch the Corbyn effect in different constituencies. In the Tory safe seats he appears as popular as a fart in a spacesuit. Where as he seemed to get more traction in earlier by elections.

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But, but he got loads of votes in the leadership contest. That means that he’ll get loads of votes in a general election.

The disintegration of the Labour Party is not good for democracy. Oppositions are meant to try to win by-elections, not slip from 2nd to 4th

Ooh, we’ve got a phantom downvoter in our midst.

He’s not even disliked, he’s just seen as so, so irrelevant by many. The EU debate is the biggest issue of our time and Labour’s strat was to keep Corbyn away from the debate (as it was the worst-kept-secret in the world that he’s a Eurosceptic himself), cross their fingers and assume that once the Remain vote had been safely won they could move on and forget about the whole thing.

The overall British reaction to be Corbyn can be summed up as:

“What do you think of Corbyn?”

“Hmm… *winces with a reluctant, apologetic, I’m-never-going-to-vote-for-him smile* …well he is a nice chap!”

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That’s pretty manufactured irrelevance as well. Anyone else noticed almost a complete lack of Labour Party coverage on the news? Anyone know what programmes the Labour Party have pushed forward in the last couple of weeks?

Pretty much the only time Labour are a story is when they’re a bad story. Unfortunately, many of the MPs are supplying it. It is a problem, not one that the leadership is unaware of, but it’s a genuine concern that so little impact was made swing-wise in Sleaford.

Doesn’t really matter if it’s a fair game or not. Labour just can’t afford to lose it, and will need to find other ways to reach the electorate, because the policy ain’t crap. It just ain’t landing.

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I think it that is fair comment

I do think that one of Jezzas biggest weaknesses as a politician is that he is not enough of a self publicist (this would be a good trait in a normal person!!!). I don’t believe that dealing with the media comes naturally to him so he has to force himself outside of his comfort zone to do so. You can only do that for so long before reverting to type.

The Labour party have to work out how to get their message across with a leader who is not adept at managing the media

And if he keeps doing things like dancing jigs at remembrance parades he’s only going to get the bad news…

Originally posted by @CB-Saint

I think it that is fair comment

I do think that one of Jezzas biggest weaknesses as a politician is that he is not enough of a self publicist (this would be a good trait in a normal person!!!).

I do agree with you to an extent, you can be as self-publicising as you like and still be ignored by the major publishers or broadcasters.

People still struggle for an answer to the philosophical question, “if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?”.

That’s a concrete conceit for Corbyn. If his team design decent policy or oppose shit policy, and no-one is around to hear it, will it get any votes? There’s no philosophy about it. It’s all too real.

I don’t believe that dealing with the media comes naturally to him so he has to force himself outside of his comfort zone to do so. You can only do that for so long before reverting to type.

The Labour party have to work out how to get their message across with a leader who is not adept at managing the media

I agree in the main. I think JC has become a capable and occasionally excellent orator. He still slips up, but at least he’s not reading his emphasis instructions out loud.

It’s not hopeless though, and while I don’t want to present the membership as a panacea, the altered composition does present some opportunities. First, it’s solvent from membership subs alone. There are no large private donors that need to be placated. There should theoretically be no sacred cows, or targets they cannot hit.

They need the equivalent of the 1979 Conservative campaign. Simple, powerful messaging that illustrates the problems Tory rule has wrought, coupled with their proposed solution. I haven’t been impressed with Labour’s attacks on the Tories in the last few years. As pleased as Miliband’s lot might have been with their “party for millionaires” line after Gordo’s 50% tax rate was abolished, there were a lot of non-millionaires voting Tory, then quite happy with aspects of government policy, that thought it all a load of old twonk.

This is an opportunity for the gloves to come off. Not only are the Tories attackable, but Labour actually has policy suggestions of its own. Hopefully, Sleaford will have stiffened the resolve of Labour members up and down the country.

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This really has to be one of the most terrible ideas a bunch of MPs ever had. I defy you to get past 40 seconds, which was when I couldn’t bear any more and had to switch it off.

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I got to 1:04. I am now going outside to drink bleach and stab myself in the ears.

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Good fucking grief.

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I quit at 23 seconds - I don’t want to talk about it. :astonished:

I haven’t watched it. Does it make Ed Balls dancing seem OK?

Lololol

Labour are lucky that Theresa May is PM cos “call me Dave” would have had a field day at PMQs

pap@papingu

Dear @UKLabour. I hereby apply for the vacant position of Chief Vetoer of Idiotic Ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFXn2-hIaZ8

I know you need one.

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Just fucking hell. The Labour party just don’t want to be in power do they?

Seems as our guest can’t wind Pap up at the moment :lou_lol:

HuffPost UK Politics@ HuffPostUKPol 18m18 minutes ago

Breaking news from Westminster: Anti-Corbyn Labour MP @ jreedmp quits parliament triggering fresh by-election http://huff.to/2hqKU4c