Merkel : Europeans can no longer rely on the US or UK

The list is your list, not mine, so if you want to add breathing oxygen to it then feel free.

I was asking you to clarify your point not making my own.

You speak for yourself when you say you feel closer to a British teetotaler than a European imbiber. It’s just not that simple is it.

Do you honestly feel closer to Theresa May than Martin Schulz for example? You think that the fact that you and Theresa both know what EastEnders is more important than your political ideology? The concept of Britishness is total fucking horseshit. Half the qualities that are ascribed could be ascribed to virtually any civilized group of people the other half are ideals which are not actually demonstrated by the British people.

You said some bollocka the other day. British people don’t like being told what to do. As if that is some kind of unique British quality. Fuck off is it and explain why the newspapers have such a hold on ua if it is even remotely true.

Barry’s example of New Zealand and Albania is a terrible example. There are plenty of reasons that people move abroad. Similarity of culture is not the only one, and in many cases difference of culture is the driver.

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Read what I’ve actually written Barry - where do I say anything about the UK or Britain?

I’m talking about people in the EU, we’re leaving the EU so what British people might or might not think is largely irrelevant to what I’m saying.

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Not for working people its not, NZ, Australia and English speaking countries all top why?

The Brits retire and take their money with them and spend it, Spain needs us more than we need them concerning that issue, people come here to work huge difference, if the money stayed here I’d have no issue but it doesn’t, hence why Poland will play ball with us on Brexit, they need British money. So will the Italians etc etc

And that’s a significant problem - too many people think that Europe needs us more than we need them.

It’s not 1939.

In 2017 there is a balance somewhere in the middle, so threatening the other 27 before we start talking is a plan doomed to failure.

Being a bloody difficult woman is great if you are trying to jump a taxi queue at midnight in Hull, but not when you are trying to secure trade deals.

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If she had any balls (which she doesn’t, despite her claims), she would tell the lot of them of fuck off and team up with Kim Jong Un. Imagine that, two small islands joined by a universal hatred from the rest of the world.

They need to ship out their excess workforce, big business needs cheap unskilled labour and bollocks to the locals.

I’m not arguing that they are not popular destinations. I’m not even arguing with the fact that many if not most people go there because of the language and the cultural similarities. I am simply pointing out that your argument is nonsensical.

You said more people move to new Zealand than Albania, and that that proves that new Zealand is more culturally similar to the UK than Albania (and by proxy Europe). It doesn’t prove anything of the sort. People move for all sorts of reasons.

Nearly as many people move to Europe as a whole than to the places you mention. Using your logic that proves that Europe as a whole is also culturally similar to the UK even if Albania isn’t.

The fact that both Europe the US and AU & NZ are culturally similar to the UK is not proven by the fact that more people move there in isolation. Fuck loads of Indians move from India to the US and Canada. Does that prove that they are culturally similar?

I personally do not think that Australia and the US are culturally closer to us than the Scandinavians or the French or the Germans or many other European nations. It’s actually very difficult to disentangle us all from one another, and almost pointless to artifically make the case that we can. I can say that It would actually be much easier if it wasnt for the fact that the US imposes their culture on us (and the rest of the world).

Soz been doing one of those fabled 9hr days

So what’s been going on? Thread seems to have derailed a bit since Pap and I had our chuckle-fest earlier.

Could someone summarise please to save wear and tear on my eyeballs

Good work everyone.

:lou_lol:

I referred to cultural interests in the main. You made the list. I pointed out how shoddy it was enumerating the reasons why.

You speak for yourself when you say you feel closer to a British teetotaler than a European imbiber. It’s just not that simple is it.

Do you honestly feel closer to Theresa May than Martin Schulz for example? You think that the fact that you and Theresa both know what EastEnders is more important than your political ideology? The concept of Britishness is total fucking horseshit. Half the qualities that are ascribed could be ascribed to virtually any civilized group of people the other half are ideals which are not actually demonstrated by the British people.

Fuck off with your strawman bollocks, lad. Eastfuckingenders.

Unlike yourself, I’ve spent the vast majority of my working life in Britain and Ireland. I’ve been to all parts of the Union, travelled into the Republic and my observations are that there isn’t a fag paper’s worth of difference worth talking about from broad cultural perspectives.

We watch the same sports, get up to the same sort of shit on a Saturday night and broadly have similar values.

You said some bollocka the other day. British people don’t like being told what to do. As if that is some kind of unique British quality. Fuck off is it and explain why the newspapers have such a hold on ua if it is even remotely true.

Aunt Sally is really not going to be impressed. Again, the original thinking is yours. At no stage did I say it was unique.

Barry’s example of New Zealand and Albania is a terrible example. There are plenty of reasons that people move abroad. Similarity of culture is not the only one, and in many cases difference of culture is the driver.

Yeah, we all know that you hate living here. Did your problems move with you?

I’m with swdp on this. Being European is as core to my sense of self as British. Which is why Brexit feels so brutal.

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So perhaps then, yourself and @stickywhitedovepiss would like to expand on what it means to be European.

I can only surmise that Brexit being brutal means that you love the European Union as an institution.

I still can’t look past the domestic violence it is capable of. When you see Greece, the battered and destitute partner on the edge of the continent, how do you guys look past that? How do you know it will never happen to us? And even if that were true, does that still make Greece alright?

I’m genuinely interested.

By moving you mean to work or retire in the EU? I feel closer to an Aussie or a Kiwi so really it is down to interpretation, millions seem to agree with me, even since the Empire ended millions have moved abroad to the Anglosphere for a better life, millions have also taken their money with them and moved to the south of France and Spain. A large difference, religion, language, law and family for one.

I’m with you @coxford_lou

Unfortunately it’s clear that Pap for instance is unable or unwilling to acknowledge another viewpoint as his own.

Sad really.

There is absolutely no need to make this personal, tyvm.

I have at no point said you’re wrong. I’ve articulated my arguments. If you’re unable to articulate your own, probably best for all if you just stopped debating instead of indulging in this gratuitous personal nonsense.

I’m really not arsed; I’ve had loads worse. But you look like Theresa trying to win an election.

Pap I usually have a lot of time for your thoughts and arguments, but not this time

As I said, this whole election thing has got you rattled and the whole “my arguments are superior than your”’ is unbecoming of you.

Personal gratuitous nonsense? You make me laugh. No, really, you do…

Ffs just accept most of us have different, but equally valid points of view and leave it at that eh

But I bet you can’t

:lou_sunglasses:

I guess the answer is an affinity to values + culture, Pap, but it’s deeper than just that. It’s not something I’ve ever tried to deconstruct - it’s just who I am and who I’ve always been. European. I definitely don’t feel American or Australian!

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Is there a singular set of European values? British culture is quite distinct from European history in the last 500 years, how far do you want to go back?

Last May?

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