Think we need to get you a shy Tory badge Lou… 
I don’t actually think I’ve ever intentionally been a Bliar user on here (the search facility may well prove me wrong, either here or elsewhere). His name is dirty enough as it stands and doesn’t need amendment. History will judge him harshly, even if he’s never brought up before an international court. That is part of the answer.
We were speaking in the film thread about the need for humility. I think that’s often what was needed. I’m no fan of Cameron but the humility coming from him over Hillsborough, the plain language and perhaps especially because it was a Conservative prime minister being so candid about the historical failures of his own party, did much to vindicate the campaigners that went officially unheard for decades and provided a lot of closure for Merseyside.
I think we need to be transparent and humble over our mistake in Iraq. Corbyn is offering an apology if he makes leader, and I have argued before that it is the first thing we’ll need to do. We’ll survive; people are savvy enough these days to distinguish between the actions of a government and the will of a people. Two million citizens marched against the war, the Labour Party shat members like a pisshead passes a kebab after a skinful, and only started to recover after Blair and Brown were demonstrably gone from office.
I am not a Tory either (shock), but I could not in good conscience campaign for the policy choices that Labour eventually ended up taking. I voted for them in the last election, because I figured any progress was progress, especially if meant getting rid of stuff like zero hour contracts which leave people with fuck all job security. They completely ignored UKIP, something I’d been pointing out for years before the election. “Red” Ed blew around in the political winds so much that I’m surprised anyone noticed what fucking colour he was.
Corbyn is going to hit the electorate with some very tasty policies. Your bright kids will be funded for higher education. Your NHS will be genuinely protected. Oddly enough, I think it is going to be the railway policies that could be most beneficial in the electorate. Most commuting is concentrated around London, which may be handy for any marginals in the capital’s orbit, but it is also a concern anyone in the country that commutes.
The other thing I wonder about is how much the Tories want power versus how much they want austerity. Could a Corbyn win force an immediate reaction?
My daughter showed me this. Much giggling ensued from both of us 
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Dunno if this is legit. Could not find a copy on the company’s website.
…and the winner(s) is(are)
The Tories.
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Jeremy Corbyn is Leader (according to Sky sources)
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As I said.
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Tom Watson is Deputy Leader - after round 3 of the vote.
House!
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Superb speech by Tom Watson.
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251,417 votes. 59.5% of the vote. Rebel against that, Blairites.
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Well, these are going to be interesting times ahead, no doubt. I hope you’re right, Pap that this guy is going to have a positive effect on the progress of left politics in the UK. But I fear not. I’m hoping at the least it will be a fascinating experience rather than frustrating. (trying to look on the positive side).
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The AV format was quite a good fit for TV, I thought. Those were some big numbers announced in round 3 before his result was announced. Quite exciting, compared to FPTP.
Of course, another benefit of AV in use here is its ability to demonstrate a mandate. Watson got a decent mandate, but clearly isn’t everyone’s first choice. Corbyn got almost 60% of the vote on first preference. I wonder how many second/third preference votes he got?
Sadly, I don’t think you have any grounds for even that guarded optimism, Lou. This result heralds the end of two-party politics. We now have one-party politics. If anyone is going to stop Tory "reforms’ to welfare it’ll have to be Tory backbenchers. Some chance. If anyone’s going to face down the imminent trade union reform bill, which will rob Labour, and especially Corbyn, of the majority of party funding, it’ll be depressing watching a leader committed historically to ignoring the party whip trying to corral a decent counterattack.
They’ve elected Chance the Gardener, or, to them, Chauncy Gardner. Not because Corbyn is a simpleton but because so many seem to have projected their own impressions of what “change” means onto him in a collective act of reckless wish-fulfilment.
Originally posted by @Furball
What a load of Billy Bragg Bollocks. Grandstanding if not of the worst kind then the most feeble. If you want to live your life spouting slogans this makes sense. If you want to be in politics on the left to deal with issues of social justice you need to deal calculatedly with the practicalities of political life in Britain.
And in what world, by what test of evidence, is Corbyn the ‘politician the public have been looking for’? I haven’t seen a single piece of polling to suggest that Corbyn would win anything more than a village hall tombola.
You have now.
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hmm have they took into account that pap’s vote was illegal, or whatever it was? Recount!
Originally posted by @pap
Originally posted by @Furball
What a load of Billy Bragg Bollocks. Grandstanding if not of the worst kind then the most feeble. If you want to live your life spouting slogans this makes sense. If you want to be in politics on the left to deal with issues of social justice you need to deal calculatedly with the practicalities of political life in Britain.
And in what world, by what test of evidence, is Corbyn the ‘politician the public have been looking for’? I haven’t seen a single piece of polling to suggest that Corbyn would win anything more than a village hall tombola.
You have now.
I don’t think so. I’ve been at a few tombola draws and they’ve made more sense than this.
The entryists are an irrelevance.
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I’m pumped up for beard man overall tho! Do you think they should make a general election for ASAP tho cos I’m pretty worried that he’ll be retirement age before he gets his turn to be president.
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