Iâm disagreeing with you all over the place here! Youâve got my dander up.
Firstly, if there are too many people then what exactly is the solution to that? There isnât one bar letting people starve to death or mudering them. You could introduce population policies but they will simply slow growth so the problem will still exist. What are you suggesting we do? Youâre painting a very bleak picture where there is nothing to do except wait for death or our families and future generations. Letâs suppose we let people starve. Who will starve? The poor in less developed places. Letâs suppose we fight for resourcesâŚwho will get the resources and who will die? The poor will lose and die. Letâs introduce population controlâŚnever going to happen in the rich world (apart from the fact that we have ageing populations, there would be riots in the street if a One Child Policy style control was introduced), so again this is about hitting the poor in the less developed world.
there are no solutions to too many people. Well, thatâs a lie, there are but theyâre going to affect the poor only. The solutions lie with people, not getting rid of people. Imagine what people 200 years ago would have said if they were told we could fly to the moon or just fly hundreds of people to Benidorm. Did the average bod on the street envisage a world with electricity 300 years ago? What about the Internet? Kondratiev wavesâŚsuccess based on cycles of innovation that change the world. Youâre limiting your view of the world to what you know (and this asshat that youâve quoted is saying). What was it that Donald Rumsfeld said about there being things we know and things we know we donât know? Have some faith in peopleâŚitâs all we got because your complaint of too many people has no actual solution accept depression and misery, and I for one have a mother in law for that.
People arenât the problem: evidence 1 - the lifetsraw
this things is fucking great. Invented by a person! Makes pretty much all dirty water safe to drink. Cheap to make. Could save millions of lives. It probably wonât because people donât give a fuck, but thatâs not the number of people being the problem, thatâs greed and selfishness.
(my plan was/is to show you all the great things people can do to help the world but Iâm already regretting it, so this may be the only example)
People arenât the problem: evidence 2 - car that runs on air
this car runs on compressed air. A fucking person invented it! People are the solution. Throw all the oil guzzling fuckers away and letâs use this! Apart from the greed of people tied up in the oil industry thereâs nothing to stop us. If the worlds population was smaller maybe this bloke would never have been born and no one would have thought of this (someone else probably would have, to be fair)
And hereâs the cynicâs response - these things youâve mentioned, Fats, although they may be sustainable in a sense, all require the consumption of resources to produce. Theyâre made from plastics, which come from oil. They need energy to produce. Theyâre made in a factory, that was built with oil-based products like machines and more plastics.
And none of these products is being scaled up, are they?
I rarely disagree with fatso but I do in this case. Shame for me.
Are you saying the solution to all the problems weâve caused by overpopulation is to keep having kids because one might invent something that saves us all? That doesnât sound much different to a gambling addict who keeps betting everything he has in the hope that one big payday will solve his problems.
People arenât the problem: evidence 3 - solar thermal power
this is becoming more and more widespread. Ivanpah in America is a spectacular example and the Moroccans are showing that you donât have to be mega rich to develop this renewable energy. Theyâre making the worlds biggest plant, using peopleâs ideas and their hard labour! People solving the worlds problems. Imagine as we invest more in these technologies how much better theyâll become! Brilliant!
Iâm saying that SoS has taken a view that there are too many people in the world and that weâre doomedâŚbut offers no solutions. He has accepted our impending doom. He even says it might happen within 50years. Well, what we going to do about that then? All sit about being glum? Ok, there are too many people. I go along with that. What do do we about it? You canât reduce the world population figure. It wonât happen. So we have to find solutions that help us deal with it. And thatâs where people need to be positive. Itâs also where people need to think about what they want politicians to do. The innovations are there; is the political will?
None of them are scaled up because of big business and vested interests. Thatâs not the same as the number of people being the problem. Thatâs the point Iâm trying to make to SoS. And yes, these things will need resources to be produced, but thatâll always be the case. You canât just make things out of nothing (although a human may invent a machine to do that one dayâŚlike on Star Trek when they order a roast dinner from a machine in the spaceship)
Grumpy, cynical, miserable, depressive, cuntâŚall of these are adequate descriptions of me that are frequently used. So why am I the only fucker on here being positive about the world? I donât even fuckimg like it. Itâs full of cunts. But you people need to see that there is hope and that hope lies with the ingenuity of mankind. I might even do something great. Probably after a post lunch poo, although to be honest, the poo will probably be the greatest thing I do all day.
Oh, donât get me wrong, Iâm fully aware of my hypocrisy in all of this. I live a relatively affluent lifestyle, travel a lot and, all-in-all, have a pretty high carbon footprint.
I gave a talk about it earlier this year at a conference. Lean production (a topic I do some research into) is seen by many as not only being much more efficient, but also much more sustainable as it means energy consumption and waste per unit of production is greatly reduced. But, all this means is that companies can produce more and more stuff more efficiently. Thereâs no net energy reduction, just more stuff in the world.
There are and i offer no solution as the only viable one means billions die anyway. Yes, it is that shit. Sorry.
He has accepted our impending doom. He even says it might happen within 50years.
It will happen before that. Sorry again.
Well, what we going to do about that then? All sit about being glum?
Accept it and get on with your life, or try to convince the whole planet to change everything they do(you have no more than ten years). Basically back to the candle and horse drawn carriage.
Ok, there are too many people. I go along with that. What do do we about it? You canât reduce the world population figure. It wonât happen. So we have to find solutions that help us deal with it. And thatâs where people need to be positive. Itâs also where people need to think about what they want politicians to do. The innovations are there; is the political will?
Nothing you can do unless you can change the whole worlds basic urge to reproduce and consume.
The only positive is that some may survive, but thatâs looking unlikely as we continually heat the planet up. Tell me what innovation can free us from burning our finite resources?
We burned 10x the oil we discovered last year and the EROEI of whatâs discovered is shit. As I said earlier, if you donât think this is as bad as i say, look at soil depletion and industrial farming(unsustainable, but billions die without it).
Have a proper read of Normanâs stuff and a look at Gail Tverbergs site ourfiniteworld. If you want hope read Nafeez Ahmed.
Iâm afraid that we will have agree to disagree @saint-or-sinner . Iâm not saying that the world is rosy. Itâs not. Itâs shit and getting shitter. But there is hope. I genuinely believe we have the ability to improve our lot and save resources and the planet. I think where we disagree is that I believe it is politicians and capitalism that is to blame rather than too many people. I canât entertain the idea of it all going to shit within 50 years. I struggle to cope with life as it is, let alone wondering about the point of even trying as weâre all going to die a horrible death soon anyway.
Recipe for disaster @btripz . They tried that in China and they are still the most populaous nation on earth but now have a generation of spoiled brats who will be left with an almost unbearable legacy as they have to support so many dependents
