🌍 Is the planet Earth doomed?

:earth_africa: Is the planet Earth doomed?
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#41

I’m disagreeing with you all over the place here! You’ve got my dander up.

Firstly, if there are too many people then what exactly is the solution to that? There isn’t one bar letting people starve to death or mudering them. You could introduce population policies but they will simply slow growth so the problem will still exist. What are you suggesting we do? You’re painting a very bleak picture where there is nothing to do except wait for death or our families and future generations. Let’s suppose we let people starve. Who will starve? The poor in less developed places. Let’s suppose we fight for resources…who will get the resources and who will die? The poor will lose and die. Let’s introduce population control…never going to happen in the rich world (apart from the fact that we have ageing populations, there would be riots in the street if a One Child Policy style control was introduced), so again this is about hitting the poor in the less developed world.

there are no solutions to too many people. Well, that’s a lie, there are but they’re going to affect the poor only. The solutions lie with people, not getting rid of people. Imagine what people 200 years ago would have said if they were told we could fly to the moon or just fly hundreds of people to Benidorm. Did the average bod on the street envisage a world with electricity 300 years ago? What about the Internet? Kondratiev waves…success based on cycles of innovation that change the world. You’re limiting your view of the world to what you know (and this asshat that you’ve quoted is saying). What was it that Donald Rumsfeld said about there being things we know and things we know we don’t know? Have some faith in people…it’s all we got because your complaint of too many people has no actual solution accept depression and misery, and I for one have a mother in law for that.


#42

People aren’t the problem: evidence 1 - the lifetsraw

this things is fucking great. Invented by a person! Makes pretty much all dirty water safe to drink. Cheap to make. Could save millions of lives. It probably won’t because people don’t give a fuck, but that’s not the number of people being the problem, that’s greed and selfishness.

(my plan was/is to show you all the great things people can do to help the world but I’m already regretting it, so this may be the only example)


#43

People aren’t the problem: evidence 2 - car that runs on air

this car runs on compressed air. A fucking person invented it! People are the solution. Throw all the oil guzzling fuckers away and let’s use this! Apart from the greed of people tied up in the oil industry there’s nothing to stop us. If the worlds population was smaller maybe this bloke would never have been born and no one would have thought of this (someone else probably would have, to be fair)


#44

And here’s the cynic’s response - these things you’ve mentioned, Fats, although they may be sustainable in a sense, all require the consumption of resources to produce. They’re made from plastics, which come from oil. They need energy to produce. They’re made in a factory, that was built with oil-based products like machines and more plastics.

And none of these products is being scaled up, are they?

Our sheer level of consumption is unsustainable.


#45

I rarely disagree with fatso but I do in this case. Shame for me.

Are you saying the solution to all the problems we’ve caused by overpopulation is to keep having kids because one might invent something that saves us all? That doesn’t sound much different to a gambling addict who keeps betting everything he has in the hope that one big payday will solve his problems.


#46

People aren’t the problem: evidence 3 - solar thermal power

this is becoming more and more widespread. Ivanpah in America is a spectacular example and the Moroccans are showing that you don’t have to be mega rich to develop this renewable energy. They’re making the worlds biggest plant, using people’s ideas and their hard labour! People solving the worlds problems. Imagine as we invest more in these technologies how much better they’ll become! Brilliant!


#47

I’m saying that SoS has taken a view that there are too many people in the world and that we’re doomed…but offers no solutions. He has accepted our impending doom. He even says it might happen within 50years. Well, what we going to do about that then? All sit about being glum? Ok, there are too many people. I go along with that. What do do we about it? You can’t reduce the world population figure. It won’t happen. So we have to find solutions that help us deal with it. And that’s where people need to be positive. It’s also where people need to think about what they want politicians to do. The innovations are there; is the political will?


#48

None of them are scaled up because of big business and vested interests. That’s not the same as the number of people being the problem. That’s the point I’m trying to make to SoS. And yes, these things will need resources to be produced, but that’ll always be the case. You can’t just make things out of nothing (although a human may invent a machine to do that one day…like on Star Trek when they order a roast dinner from a machine in the spaceship)


#49

Grumpy, cynical, miserable, depressive, cunt…all of these are adequate descriptions of me that are frequently used. So why am I the only fucker on here being positive about the world? I don’t even fuckimg like it. It’s full of cunts. But you people need to see that there is hope and that hope lies with the ingenuity of mankind. I might even do something great. Probably after a post lunch poo, although to be honest, the poo will probably be the greatest thing I do all day.


#50

Oil keeps me in the luxury I deserve stop trying to get it the big industry is bad gold medal.

With out it non of the following.

Plastic

transport

lights

electricity

internet

television

music

plus a million other things that oil is actually used for the above list is just what most of you internet warriors use everyday.


#51

Oh, don’t get me wrong, I’m fully aware of my hypocrisy in all of this. I live a relatively affluent lifestyle, travel a lot and, all-in-all, have a pretty high carbon footprint.

I gave a talk about it earlier this year at a conference. Lean production (a topic I do some research into) is seen by many as not only being much more efficient, but also much more sustainable as it means energy consumption and waste per unit of production is greatly reduced. But, all this means is that companies can produce more and more stuff more efficiently. There’s no net energy reduction, just more stuff in the world.


#52

There are and i offer no solution as the only viable one means billions die anyway. Yes, it is that shit. Sorry.

He has accepted our impending doom. He even says it might happen within 50years.

It will happen before that. Sorry again.

Well, what we going to do about that then? All sit about being glum?

Accept it and get on with your life, or try to convince the whole planet to change everything they do(you have no more than ten years). Basically back to the candle and horse drawn carriage.

Ok, there are too many people. I go along with that. What do do we about it? You can’t reduce the world population figure. It won’t happen. So we have to find solutions that help us deal with it. And that’s where people need to be positive. It’s also where people need to think about what they want politicians to do. The innovations are there; is the political will?

Nothing you can do unless you can change the whole worlds basic urge to reproduce and consume.

The only positive is that some may survive, but that’s looking unlikely as we continually heat the planet up. Tell me what innovation can free us from burning our finite resources?

We burned 10x the oil we discovered last year and the EROEI of what’s discovered is shit. As I said earlier, if you don’t think this is as bad as i say, look at soil depletion and industrial farming(unsustainable, but billions die without it).

Have a proper read of Norman’s stuff and a look at Gail Tverbergs site ourfiniteworld. If you want hope read Nafeez Ahmed.


#53

Head between arse cheeks and say good night then


#54

I’m afraid that we will have agree to disagree @saint-or-sinner . I’m not saying that the world is rosy. It’s not. It’s shit and getting shitter. But there is hope. I genuinely believe we have the ability to improve our lot and save resources and the planet. I think where we disagree is that I believe it is politicians and capitalism that is to blame rather than too many people. I can’t entertain the idea of it all going to shit within 50 years. I struggle to cope with life as it is, let alone wondering about the point of even trying as we’re all going to die a horrible death soon anyway.


#55

@fatso I have no idea how old you are but life is shit yes we have the ability to make it better but most people will not.

I left the UK because got offered a better job.

I employ people to work for me.

They work because I pay them

if i did not employ them they would not work.


#56

Simple way to cull the population without culling the population.

Maximum of 1 person per child bearing parent. Was going to say couple but that would men the same mother could hvae loads of kids

2 become 1, in a generation population is halved.


#57

I’m not really sure I understand the point you’re making, PS.


#58

Recipe for disaster @btripz . They tried that in China and they are still the most populaous nation on earth but now have a generation of spoiled brats who will be left with an almost unbearable legacy as they have to support so many dependents


#59

Ah, but didn’t they have the policy where you could pay for your second, third etc. child, with each subsequent one becoming twice as expensive?


#60

Basically life is shit but you can try to make it better