EU tearing itself apart over immigration

EU tearing itself apart over immigration
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#1

Well I did say 3 years about, what can I say? Merkel could be gone soon, Italy has had enough, what about Malta taking their fair share? Hungary? Others?


#2

Fair point Bazza. Immigration is good. It can bring in skills needed. EU went for a cheap let anyone in option now the politicians see the cost. Italy & Greece were basically cut adrift.
Shengen is under real threat.
Like when Cameron sought change before the referendum, Brussels has continued to treat the real concerns of eastern & southern EU members with contempt. Something has to change if even Merkel is in trouble.


#3

What you could say, but pretty certainly won’t, is what you think should be done to resolve this issue.


#4

I upvoted Barry’s OP, and did have a post ready to go last night. I upvoted him because I think for once, he’s probably got a better steer on what’s going on in EU states than those that want to look the other way.

Merkel may have been the poster girl for mass immigration, but it’s really the over-reach and the zealotry of the European Union project banging up against some attitudes which are simultaneously nascent and entrenched.

Without the expansion into Eastern Europe, or a more measured expansion, I think the public might have had a chance to get used to the concept. In the acquisition of those states, the EU also acquired a group of nations that had been virtually closed societies, effectively controlled by the Soviet Union and denied any opportunity for national identity to be expressed or to flourish.

A process of Russification was perpetually underway in each of them. It shouldn’t be a surprise that so many of these states have significant Russian minorities.

These are newly liberated, nationalist countries with social attitudes that haven’t moved much past the 1940s, unless they drank the Communist Kool Aid.

The EU never factored this into its project and still pretends it doesn’t exist. Thing is, it really should be self-evident to anyone with any experience of older relatives. By and large, they tend to be more racist, more homophobic, less tolerant of other cultures.

Transport a thirty-something loquacious 1930s Brit into 2018, and you’d likely have a thirty something racist in a pub. We’d know it wasn’t his fault, would conclude it was a bad idea to bring him here in the first place, and that his attitudes were out of step with the time.

So quite why the EU thought bringing several culturally stunted and quite nationalist countries into the mix would ever be a good idea is a little beyond me.


#5

Almost nail on head there Pap.
The factor that keeps getting missed (while I agree with your sentiments) is the actual political standpoint of the EU itself. It is basically a Social Democratic machine with “leanings” towards the Liberal Elite - the EU Leadeship are Davos set types.
Now I won’t critic ayone for their Political views, BUT political positions and opinions are always divided. Make a decision for the good of a Business (or like down here for the benefit of future citizens) you will often get a different version of that decision if you factor in a “political view”. The UK went very Centrist in the post Maggie period and so when (cameron) was made to look stupid by people who disagreed with the British “ideology” of the time there was a backlash.

Now when you go to Eastern Europe, at their CORE, those Nations are not “facist or racist”, they were (and still are) trying to build their core values from scratch. They had 50 odd years of “Doctrine” being forced on them. Why the hell would they respond positively to a new “Ruler” imposing “Doctrine” rather than allowing them to develop and grow themselves?

As Pap said - it was never going to work. Poland took the EU Development Cash, built infrastructure (as did Italy) but in my lifetime they only just started to feel free to express their OWN religious views - deep seated Catcholic Views. HOW could they suddenly be expected to “magically” accept their society being “over-run” with non-Catholics? In terms of cultural development, those Eastern European Nations were in the same position we were in in 1960’s UK when our own population (and Enoch) were in their prime.

Junker making a statement will not resolve that, acceptance and integration takes time.

So yes, Poland currently actually NEEDS immigration. The Labour Market is broken, like the UK, Youth will not take entry level low paid jobs, a huge proportion of the skilled workforce still work overseas (and not only in the UK, but Norway, Sweden and others). The local village Pizza joint that has been in business over 30 years faces closure for the simple fact that they cannot find anyone to stay more than a week cooking Pizzas.
They (Poland) face a flood of immigrant labour (they need it) BUT it is causing resentment - that labour? It is coming from Ukraine!

The EU is in trouble because of Merkel. It is in trouble because she did nothing to help Greece and Italy. It is in trouble because the 50 year old Social Democrat view of the world that is enshrined in it’s foundations is out of date in the modern world.

And it isn’t just Bazza commenting on this - here is the BBC opinion on it.

The EU should be about the will of the people.
It is not, Brussels is out of touch and has spent the past years lecturing it’s people as if they were stupid.
The Peasants are Revolting


#6

Stop the boats leaving, don’t let them board, asylum isn’t economic migration quite obviously, have assessment centres in this ports where they leave Africa.


#7

As I have also and always said expansion to the East and the spread of NATO on Russians borders sends them and the security in the region in jeopardy, and I have also always said NATIONAL interests will always come before EU interest, the snowflakes simply don’t like nor can accept that reality no matter what.
They’re wrong, totally wrong so I suggest they give their houses up first?


#8

That’s true but when was the last time a rich area where these people live have had to take in mass immigration? The South of England is largely untouched by it as social housing is so so much cheaper up North and yet the Southerners are telling us how to conduct our moral affairs.
Pricks.


#9

Have a read of this article, particularly the second part. It really isn’t that simple to separate out “proper” refugees and “economic migrants”.

And simply saying “stop the boats leaving, don’t let them board” is hardly an answer. How exactly would you achieve that? Migration is a global issue, affecting far more than just the EU. Looking at it as simply a question of preventing people from moving is looking purely at the symptoms, not the causes.


#10

Also conceding the point via diversion isn’t attractive.


#11

What the fuck is that supposed to mean?


#12

It’s called debate @Barry-Sanchez, you’ve stated something but not suggested a solution. We can all whinge about something i.e. my neighbour keeps having smelly BBQs but very few offer solutions i.e. I’m going to get the hose out next time he does.

To avoid peoples perceptions of you a solution or start of one would be helpful.


#13

Why? The solution to carbon emissions? Flights to Mars? You don’t have to know the solution to know something is wrong, thats naive to think that way, the very simple way to look at it is if nothing is done you’ll have a fascist EU soon and won’t that be rosy for the EU lovers? The will of the people all over Europe want change and want it now. Did you see newsnight last night? Have a look and then come back.


#14

Because otherwise you just become


#15

It was supposed to mean as opposed to saying I am wrong like you have been the last 3 years you’re now moving it to what would you do scenario, the EU is broken over this and it won’t fix it until harder borders are in place or other nations take their share, I don’t have to insult you to say the latter is not going to happen so straight away the EU is fucked, admit it, admit its fucked like Juncker is doing and we can all move on and try to find a solution together.


#16

Well there are millions of them gaining ground in the EU, Bavaria is about to fuck Merkel right up the arse is they don’t get tougher borders and a harder stance on immigration.


#17

There’s really no point in my typing this, but I haven’t been saying you’re wrong for the last three years, as you claim. I’ve rarely if ever attempted to discuss or debate anything with you, and given your response on this occasion I’m reminded of why that is.


#18

Damn, cannot find the comment now from an article but.
I read that UK set up some “education/information centres” in Nigeria. Their aim was to explain the actual realities of crossing the Med.

They were not processing or clearing houses but simply pointed out that it was not as easy as local folk-lore had made out.

As a result, the number of Nigerians attempting the crossing dropped.

Anyway. The solution is simple, stop them at source. That means a US style lock em up and sort them system OR you apply at migration centres in country.

The fact that people can read the news and see that (eventually) the Aquarius dropped off ts load means they keep coming.
Send them straight back and deter will they keep coming?
Not easy. Solution lies in the 1st link I posted, just whether the EU has the will, the money OR the political capital with places like Libya to actually set the selection centres up.

It’s like the UK - you get in, do nothing wrong, nobody is looking for you (until 40 years later #windrush) - is how it APPEARS to those potential immigrants, so why wouldn’t they take huge risks,
If they saw the reality…


#19

Anyone travelling on their own between the age of 16-40 gets processed totally differently to asylum seekers, I have said this before, families, gays, people with diseases and peoples lives under threat go to the front of the queue, economic migrants go to the back.
Can the west en masse go to these places and set up shop?
Why aren’t the Chinese helping? The Middle East? The rest of Africa?


#20

Fact is you are, fact is the EU is fucked because of this.