This is a bit of mis-direction by our dear Kate there, as the key point is almost lost as she likes to use the inclusive āweā in there, which in my obviously cynical POV looks like she wants a share of the creditā¦
The reality is that it was the BIA (The BioIndustry Association) that convening in February last year to ramp up manufacturing capability and capacity. But its aim was not to give āUK folksā more guaranteed access, but to ensure global supply capability.
Kate and the Vaccine Task Force did not go live until Mayā¦ some would argue rather late in the day, and even as late as November 2020, only one of its objectives was UK supply, the rest was global supply and the set up of a permanent research and manufacturing capability to provide global service for ongoing and future pandemicsā¦ a commercial decision
Its only since we have the supply shortage that she now seems to be presenting this as some sort of foresightā¦
ā¦ as mentioned yesterday, there will be a big influence of commercial reality and consideration of who they want to piss off leastā¦
ā¦sadly if there are legal disputes, it will simply delay distributionā¦ ultimately they should do arbitration would most likely resolve in these situations, that both contracts are honoured and supply is aligned to a percentage of the ordersā¦
The UK has done a lot wrong throughout the last 12 months, but it is hard to argue that we havenāt done well on vaccines - we have made a lot of big bets, far more that most countries and that has paid off
You note I said āweā but I didnāt mean me. Just a figure of speech - I am not trying to share the credit to the vaccine programme
@CB-Saint
I am not disputing the fact that we have taken ābig betsā, I simply find the whole, āourā vaccines thing a bit distasteful. It should come down to greatest need, not legal contractual disputes etcā¦ All the vaccines have been developed through international cooperation and are being manufactured globally under license to maximise local accessā¦ but what if AZ had failed and we were in desperate need of vaccines manufactured elsewhere? Was if factories in the UK had problems?
Would I feel comfortable being vaccinated as say a 40 year old, whilst millions of 80 year olds are still unable to get it? Would our judgement on this be different if it was under 10s that were most vulnerable (as already posted earlier)? If this happens because of the contracts or by luck (which factories have issues etc) is anyone really that comfortable with the jingoism of āourā vaccines?
Ultimately as doctors take the Hippocratic oath to treat based on need irrespective anything else, as a global pandemic, surely we should be doing the same?
You appear to concerned for the EU not its citizens, I havenāt seen you concerned for the citizens or Burma, Burundi or Burkina Faso and the poorest nations getting their shots, there is no real fair way to do it, Iād love to see one.
because English are more valuable than others? Maybe I could are you including the Welsh or is it only certain English people who should be prioritised? What about EU nationals who live here?
How is it more unfair if a British person dies versus a non-Brit?
I am posing a moral question based on the simple fact that vaccine supply may come down to contactual dispute or manufacturing issues
The contractual dispute is at the root of this discussion hence the focus. The moral question applies globally, and you missed/ignored the post where that was highlighted
The principle of treat all at need is what this is aboutā¦ and ideally based on greatest need firstā¦
so are English people more deserving irrespective of need?
(Not sure why this now shows as a rep to Slowyā¦ all seems to have become a bit messed up ā¦ )
It isnāt, there isnāt a fair way to do this, weāre not hoarding it, we ordered it, obviously if the courts decide otherwise weād should honour that decision.
Oh so youāre Socrates now, sitting on the fence posing such philosophical as this? Bollocks.
Deflection.
Who has the greatest need? An 80 year old here or one in France? National interests will always come first hence how wank the EU really is in times of trouble. Germany buttfucking Greece?
Not all all, the people who are in England will be deserving of it like the UK if the Government are found to have been ahead of the game as such, that should be applauded not picked apart in your proxy argument.
Not only do seem incapable of keeping any discussion civilā¦ you keep demonstrating you dont understand. This is OK Barry, just ask, happy to help out on this.
NO Barry, you said it would unfairly leave people dead in this country, so again answer teh question, how is it unfair?
This discussion and issue was being discussed before you dropped in to fuck it up and troll the shit out it. Its simple, if you dont want to discuss something keep your fucking mouth shut ā¦son, and let the grown ups play
Merely sharing the fact that your accusation was misguided and ignorant of previous posts on the matterā¦
Again you miss the pointā¦ its not about 80 year olds either here or in France being in greater need, they are both in equal clinical needā¦ It was clear in the post that the point raised was comparing need between say a healthy 40 year old here vs an 80 year old else whereā¦ hence the follow up on whether perspectives would be different if you as a 40+ were denying access to a vaccine of a child if that group were most vulnerable
ā¦ The Government had fuck all to do with itā¦ the BIA made a commercial decision in Feb to ramp up productionā¦ the Government took a punt as did other nations / EU and orders were takenā¦ (See the link in a previous post which has a nice colourful graph to show all countries have open orders and we are but one of manyā¦) only now fulfilment is proving difficult so disputes ariseā¦ point being that all the jingoistic shite is pure nationalistic bullshitā¦ we should count ourselves lucky that the ones we ordered workā¦ considering all have been developed and manufactured internationally through cooperation, its not too much to expect and bit more of this if challenges arise to ensure those at greatest get what they need.
I personally wouldnāt deny anyone a vaccine above myself, that is just me, how do you propose to assess the clinical needs of a foreign nation that wants vaccines for their vulnerable?
As I said there is no fair way to do it and by taking some from here you will kill more here, that is what you propose.
Donāt backtrack, that is what you and no one else proposed.
Naive beyond comprehension, the most vulnerable arenāt in the EU by many benchmarks, national interests, you really donāt get that do you whether its wilful ignorance or just stupidity I really donāt know but nations will always put themselves first above a project, youāve seen that recently in Poland.
We should be automatically giving it to the poorest nations where they still have to work and where they can not self isolate but will we?
Will we fuck.
The real World is a shithouse and unfair, its deeply undemocratic and mostly wank.
This is a case and point so sit back and relax, you can refuse to have your vaccine on grounds of poor policy and its innate unfairness.
Barry Island - Home of the Whopper 